Civil War Interactive Discussion Board Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register
Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > What Was the Single, Worst Civilian Atrocity in the Civil War?


What Was the Single, Worst Civilian Atrocity in the Civil War? - General Civil War Talk - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
 Moderated by: javal1 Page:    1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rate Topic 
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 04:42 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
1st Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Just wondering what you all feel to be the single, worst large-scale atrocity committed against civians in the Civil War? I was just reading yesterday a detailed account of one in particular but wondered if there were others.

One reason I wonder about it is that for a war fought right on our soil with enemies tramping all over the soil, it seems as if there are incredibly few incidents of heinous crimes against civilians given the number of armed combatants involved and the many opportunities they would have had to step out of line.

I am not referring to routine bumming and foraging. I am referring to criminal and wanton sociopathic acts. For example, when one considers the large number of men in the war and the large number of women left unprotected, there seems to be relatively few cases of "outrages" against women. Is it that such "outrages" were not reported or is it that most soldiers were gentlemanly enough to restrain more base urges?

Mainly, however, I am referring to barbarism on a large scale. It seems as if such events were few and far between or maybe there are several I don't know about.



 Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 07:40 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
2nd Post
David White
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 909
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Ewing's Order 11 probably qualifies.



 Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 11:29 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
3rd Post
Crazy Delawares
Member


Joined: Fri Feb 22nd, 2008
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 143
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

So many to choose from in East Tennessee and Western North Carolina alone! After that, look out west. So many...it's sad.

Last edited on Mon Nov 10th, 2008 11:30 pm by Crazy Delawares



 Posted: Mon Nov 10th, 2008 11:43 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
4th Post
Captain Crow
Proud Southerner


Joined: Sun Jul 13th, 2008
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 542
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

so many were atrocities were committed by the U.S. against native Americans during the war it would be hard for me to pick just one.....here's one of the worst...

Sand Creek Colorado, site of a massacre (1864) of Cheyenne by Col. John M. Chivington and his Colorado Volunteers. The Cheyennes, led by their chief, Black Kettle , had offered to make peace and, at the suggestion of military personnel, had encamped at Sand Creek near Fort Lyon while awaiting word from the territory's governor. There they were attacked in a surprise dawn raid on Nov. 29, 1864. Chivington and his men, choosing to ignore a white flag, slaughtered and mutilated hundreds of men, women, and children. The atrocity has been the subject of much controversy, and an effort to unearth the site began in 1998.



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 12:18 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
5th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I didn't know about the Sand Creek massacre. Isn't that heinous!  Too bad we were fighting Indians at the same time we were fighting each other.



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 01:15 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
6th Post
TimK
Member
 

Joined: Thu Apr 10th, 2008
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 311
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Sand Creek is a gut wrenching story. Not only did the peaceful Black Kettle raise a white flag, he also flew an American flag. But one must remember the times. Even though it was a massacre by anybody's standards, Chivington was a hero in Colorado and in Denver - not only for this but for his work at Glorieta Pass. There is even a county named for him here in Colorado. The story of Sand Creek literally sickens me. I tried to see it a few years ago, but it was on private land and impossible to get close to. Now, I believe it is a National Monument and accessible with interpretation. Chivington, Glorieta Pass, and Sand Creek may be worthy of their own thread, if there isn't one on this board already.



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 03:15 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
7th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I agree Sand Creek is the worse , and add to that after the war Battle Kettle is killed in a raid on Washita done by nother other that George Armstrong Custer on order of Phil Sheridan. Everyone pretty much was wiped out including Black Kettle and his wife who had somehow survived Sand Creek.



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 10:42 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
8th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Lawrence, Kansas.



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 01:56 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
9th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

ole wrote: Lawrence, Kansas.
Yes, Ole, that is the one (and Centralia, MO) that I read about in Castel's Quantrill book. Castel called Lawrence the single greatest massacre of civilains in the Civil War, but I wondered if that was accurate. I figured there must ahve been others that approached it in ferocity.

Last edited on Wed Nov 12th, 2008 02:52 pm by CleburneFan



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 02:09 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
10th Post
David White
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 6th, 2005
Location: Texas USA
Posts: 909
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Centralia wasn't perpetrated on civilians.



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 02:46 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
11th Post
calcav1
Member
 

Joined: Tue Nov 20th, 2007
Location: Corinth, MS
Posts: 48
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Chambersburg, PA



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 03:16 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
12th Post
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352


Joined: Sat Dec 2nd, 2006
Location: South Of The North 40, Minnesota USA
Posts: 1065
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

To me Sand Creek wins the dubious appelet hands down.



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 06:01 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
13th Post
ole
Member


Joined: Sun Oct 22nd, 2006
Location:  
Posts: 2027
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Sand Creek ranks really close to top, but it wasn't really part of the Civil War. Much like the uprising in Minnesota in late '62, it happened during the time, but I don't generally figure it as part. You, however, are invited to think of it what you will.

On the other hand, Lawrence was one of those senseless bits of the USCW that ought to leave a bitter taste on anyone, Yank or Reb. What was the toll? About 180 men and boys? It makes me nauseus that old men and kids could be slaughtered in the name of whatever. There was no gain there.

If one has to shoot every man, woman and child to take that fort, there is a reason. (Tenuous, but an actual reason.) To kill them all just because get's somewhat outside of collateral damage.

No question. Lawrence.

To be fair, next on the list is Roswell. And, after that, Ebenezer Creek.

We'll get ther soon enough.

Ole



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 09:30 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
14th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

The Navajo long walk Bosque Redondo is another of the events of atrocity during the Civil War . Little Crow's Uprising and the hanging of the chiefs after is part of the Civil War . The events would not have happened as they did with out the War going on .
Just my opinion from what I have read.



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 09:42 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
15th Post
TimK
Member
 

Joined: Thu Apr 10th, 2008
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 311
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

According to the NPS and the American Battlefield Protection Program, Sand Creek is considered a Civil War battle.

http://www.nps.gov/hps/abpp/battles/co001.htm



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:16 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
16th Post
Captain Crow
Proud Southerner


Joined: Sun Jul 13th, 2008
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 542
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

susansweet wrote: The Navajo long walk Bosque Redondo is another of the events of atrocity during the Civil War . Little Crow's Uprising and the hanging of the chiefs after is part of the Civil War . The events would not have happened as they did with out the War going on .
Just my opinion from what I have read.
I concur on both points.

Have you read "The Blue, The Grey, and The Red-Indian Campaigns of the Civil War" by Thom Hatch?  It's truly sad that so much of what was done to the Indians in the name of westward expansion and progress has been swept under the carpet. Truly some of the darkest deeds of our nation.

Last edited on Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:22 pm by Captain Crow



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:30 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
17th Post
pamc153PA
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jun 14th, 2008
Location: Boyertown, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 407
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Once again, folks, you are educating me and reminding me how much I have to learn, at the same time. . .

Pam



 Posted: Tue Nov 11th, 2008 11:40 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
18th Post
Captain Crow
Proud Southerner


Joined: Sun Jul 13th, 2008
Location: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma USA
Posts: 542
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

pamc153PA wrote: Once again, folks, you are educating me and reminding me how much I have to learn, at the same time. . .

Pam
That's what I love about this group...they challenge our assumptions and stimulate our curiosity.........and cause me to buy to darn many books LOL!:D



 Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 12:07 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
19th Post
susansweet
Member


Joined: Sun Sep 4th, 2005
Location: California USA
Posts: 1420
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I have read several books on the Western history /Indians , One of my favorites is Kit Carson and the Indians. This book puts Carson in the 19th century where he belongs not the genocidal figure he is made in the 20th and 21st century. He did what he did to Navajo thinking he was helping them to survive. In doing she many were killed. The Navajo of that period were not the ones you learned about in school , the silversmiths and blanket weavers who herd cattle but fierce warriors that reigned terror on other tribes in the area. Civil War in the American West is good by Josephy and of course Hampton Sides Blood and Thunder .



 Posted: Wed Nov 12th, 2008 12:25 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
20th Post
CleburneFan
Member


Joined: Mon Oct 30th, 2006
Location: Florida USA
Posts: 1021
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Calcav, thank you for mentioning Chambersburg, PA. That is where I went to grade school and middle school. My dad was born there. I remember, many, many years ago when Chambersburg had its sesquicentennial celebration a reenactment of the burning of Chambersburg was held...on a very small scale.  

Anyway, for years I had thought that the Rebels burned Chambersburg on the way to the Battle of Gettysburg, but when I started studying the Civil War seriously, I learned General McCausland burned Chambersburg in 1864 on orders from Jubal Early in retaliation for General Hunter's Yankee predations in the Shenandoah Valley.

I'm not certain if any civilians were killed in the blazing inferno, but it had to be very frightening to lose one's home and everything one owned in such a fire. 



 Current time is 08:05 amPage:    1  2  3  4  Next Page Last Page  
Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > General Civil War Talk > What Was the Single, Worst Civilian Atrocity in the Civil War?
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.4255 seconds (8% database + 92% PHP). 28 queries executed.