Civil War Interactive Discussion Board Home
Home Search search Menu menu Not logged in - Login | Register


South carolina and the Confederate flag - General Civil War Talk - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
 Moderated by: javal1 Page:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page  
 New Topic   Reply   Printer Friendly 
 Rating:  Rating
AuthorPost
 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 05:23 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
21st Post
TimK
Member
 

Joined: Thu Apr 10th, 2008
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 311
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Am I missing something? ALL southerners respect the CBF? Even southern blacks, Jewish people, Catholics, etc? ALL Yankees hate it? I don't think so. That's quite a generalization. When I study the CW, in it's context the CBF means nothing more or less to me than any other flag.

However, out of that context I see something different. If I am at a parade where a bunch of people are marching behind an American flag, I get a much different feel than when I'm at a parade where I see a bunch of people marching behind a CBF. Maybe its a little different in South Carolina compared to Colorado.

Again, I believe everybody has a right to be proud of their heritage. I would just hope that you can define your heritage by not defiantly displaying what has become a symbol of hate.

Just my opinion.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 05:42 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
22nd Post
borderuffian
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 13th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 105
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

javal1 wrote: "If people that say the confederate flag symbolizes hate then they just dont have any sense at all."

Some of us are old enough to remember the KKK beating and lynching blacks while carrying the flag. I still see it carried by white supremacists. Not once have I ever seen the SCV, UDC or other person so concerned about their heritage confront these idiots. Why?

You can blame the NAACP all you want, but much of the hate symbolism now associated with the flag comes from the inaction (and actions) of Southerners themselves.





"Some of us are old enough to remember the KKK beating and lynching blacks while carrying the flag."

I've never seen this.  Are you referring to a photo or were you witness to a lynching?  Please show us some examples otherwise I count this as just another shot of disinformation on the subject.

*

"I still see it carried by white supremacists."

They also carry the United States flag and have Christian crosses on their 'uniforms.'

*

"Not once have I ever seen the SCV, UDC or other person so concerned about their heritage confront these idiots. Why?"

Could it be they might get shot?

But I haven't seen anyone representing US veteran/heritage organizations confronting them about their using the US flag either.

The official flag of the Klan is the United States flag.


Anyone want to volunteer to tell these folks to take down their flag?-






Last edited on Mon Feb 15th, 2010 07:10 pm by borderuffian



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 05:54 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
23rd Post
borderuffian
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 13th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 105
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

TimK wrote: However, out of that context I see something different. If I am at a parade where a bunch of people are marching behind an American flag, I get a much different feel than when I'm at a parade where I see a bunch of people marching behind a CBF. Maybe its a little different in South Carolina compared to Colorado.




 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 06:42 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
24th Post
Old Blu
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 16th, 2008
Location: Waynesboro., Virginia USA
Posts: 330
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Timk says:

If I am at a parade where a bunch of people are marching behind an American flag, I get a much different feel than when I'm at a parade where I see a bunch of people marching behind a CBF. Maybe its a little different in South Carolina compared to Colorado.

Yep.  I get a different feeling too when I see people marching with the Confederate Flag.

Happiness and elation!!



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 07:40 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
25th Post
pamc153PA
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jun 14th, 2008
Location: Boyertown, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 407
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

No disrespect intended, Blu, but can you explain why happiness and elation?

Pam



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 08:32 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
26th Post
Old Blu
Member
 

Joined: Tue Sep 16th, 2008
Location: Waynesboro., Virginia USA
Posts: 330
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

It reminds me of my Heritage and in my mind it reminds me of my ancestors who fought in the War of Northern Aggression.  :D



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 09:45 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
27th Post
borderuffian
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 13th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 105
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

borderuffian wrote: javal1 wrote:

"Some of us are old enough to remember the KKK beating and lynching blacks while carrying the flag."
borderuffian:

I've never seen this.  Are you referring to a photo or were you witness to a lynching?  Please show us some examples otherwise I count this as just another shot of disinformation on the subject.



Found an example yet?

I looked through a newspaper archive that covers the period when lynchings were a common occurence.

I did not find a single instance of a Confederate flag or flags being present at a lynching...

...but I did find several instances of people being lynched by JINGO mobs for supposed insults to the United States flag and/or country.  A man of German descent was hanged in Illinois in 1918.  He was led down the streets to his hanging while being forced to wave a US flag.  A black man in Kansas City was almost hung for alledged insults to the flag (1898).  A Russian immigrant was hung in Oklahoma in 1918 for supposed disloyalty.  "He was placed on a chair, forced to kiss every star in an American flag, and the chair was pushed from under him.  He hung for fifteen seconds before his captors cut him down at the plea of the Assistant Chief [of Police.]"  And on and on...

Do you want me to continue...or cut your losses now while I'm only 100 points ahead?

Last edited on Mon Feb 15th, 2010 09:49 pm by borderuffian



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 09:48 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
28th Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I've never seen this.  Are you referring to a photo or were you witness to a lynching?  Please show us some examples otherwise I count this as just another shot of disinformation on the subject.

You can do your own searching. Find the video of the Greensboro massacre. You can easily see the Klansmen proudly drive up in their car adorned with Confederate plates and minutes later kill several blacks and whites. Peruse the footage from the 60's marches in Miss. and Alabama and you see beatings, etc. by those wearing Confederate regalia.

And for those who wish to equate the US flag with the Confederate flag because the Klan uses that one too, all I know is that innumerable blacks are free because of the men that died under the US flag. Can the same be said of the stars and bars?

The point is that there are those who can't understand why it's seen as a symbol of hate. The reasons are there, and the majority of it has nothing to do with the Civil War. And a large reason is their own fault.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 10:08 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
29th Post
borderuffian
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 13th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 105
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

javal1 wrote: I've never seen this.  Are you referring to a photo or were you witness to a lynching?  Please show us some examples otherwise I count this as just another shot of disinformation on the subject.

You can do your own searching. Find the video of the Greensboro massacre. You can easily see the Klansmen proudly drive up in their car adorned with Confederate plates and minutes later kill several blacks and whites.

That's not a lynching.  That was a confrontation between Klansman with Nazis against the Communist Workers Party with the CWP doing much to incite the violence. 

Two mobs.  One with guns the other with sticks.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 10:24 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
30th Post
borderuffian
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 13th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 105
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

javal1 wrote: Peruse the footage from the 60's marches in Miss. and Alabama and you see beatings, etc. by those wearing Confederate regalia.

I've seen such footage and I don't recall any Confederate flags or regalia.

Are you sure you are seeing the actual footage?...or the Hollywood re-enactment?

Hollywood has been known to 'flag-up' certain events.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 10:39 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
31st Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Never mind Ruffian. Whatever you're shown wouldn't be good enough. Either the cause of death wouldn't be right, or you wouldn't like the political beliefs of the victims, etc., etc. The point was the flag is hated by some because of it's use by hate groups and the failure of "heritage groups" to protect it. If you want to continue to deny that feel free. But as you implied earlier, maybe they were scared they'd be hurt. 



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 10:49 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
32nd Post
csamillerp
Member


Joined: Wed Feb 10th, 2010
Location: South Carolina USA
Posts: 212
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

the point is if you are going to say the confederate flag is a symbol of hatred then you also need to point out everything else that is



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 10:59 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
33rd Post
csamillerp
Member


Joined: Wed Feb 10th, 2010
Location: South Carolina USA
Posts: 212
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

i really appreciate your input Borderuffin, i fly the rebel flag proudly because my forefathers sacraficed their lives for the beliefs that it stands for, but im not racist.

thank you



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 11:05 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
34th Post
csamillerp
Member


Joined: Wed Feb 10th, 2010
Location: South Carolina USA
Posts: 212
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

you can also read in every american history book how American  soldiers including Custer murder innocent indians, by the thousands tens of thousands! at least be a smart hypocrite



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 11:07 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
35th Post
TimK
Member
 

Joined: Thu Apr 10th, 2008
Location: Aurora, Colorado
Posts: 311
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

It looks like to me that the argument is that the CBF has not evolved into a symbol of hate, but the American flag has and there are pictures to prove it.

csamillerp - you are right. There are many symbols that have evolved into symbols of hate. The swastika is used by several eastern religions today. They would have a difficult time, though, trying to explain why they are displayed at their temples in this country.

And for the last time, I do not intend to diminish or insult anybody's heritage. But I'm not the one that decided to desecrate the CBF. Those are the people you need to be angry with.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 11:12 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
36th Post
csamillerp
Member


Joined: Wed Feb 10th, 2010
Location: South Carolina USA
Posts: 212
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

to me people can hate the confederate flag all they want but when they cross the line, like some have done on here, and disrespect southerners they piss me off. but thank you for the understanding timk



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 11:17 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
37th Post
javal1
Grumpy Geezer


Joined: Thu Sep 1st, 2005
Location: Tennessee USA
Posts: 1503
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Let's understand something. You're entitled yo your views on the flag or anything else, whether I or anyone else agree or disagrees. We'll argue our views, just as you will. But calling any other member a hypocrite stoops to a personal attack, which isn't allowed. Argue the topic, don't let it sink to personal slurs. And if you wish to debate controversial topics, expect to get "pissed off" as you put it.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 11:55 pm
   PM  Quote  Reply 
38th Post
pamc153PA
Member
 

Joined: Sat Jun 14th, 2008
Location: Boyertown, Pennsylvania USA
Posts: 407
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

I understand the importance a person's heritage plays in his/her personal views. And it is never my intention to try to tell anyone their feelings about their personal history are wrong. But when you are dealing with something as inflamatory as the CBF, Southern heritage, slavery, etc., you must be aware that there are two sides to this--otherwise why would you bring this to a "discussion?" I wouldn't think you would assume everyone would agree with you, even if we were all of Southern heritage like you. But you are acting that way, sorry to say, csamillerp.

It pisses me off to no end that my own CW ancestors in the 153rd PA in the XI Corps got the false reputation as a "damn, lazy Dutchman," not once but twice blamed for a failure to hold the flank when that failure really was that of the commanders. But I also know that when I come here to discuss, there are others who don't see it that way, and so instead of having a hissy fit (temper tantrum) when someone says something I don't like about my "heritage," I come prepared with facts, to discuss, not stamp my feet and cry foul.

borderruffian, I'm thinking you just want a fight, and so nothing will convince you. Joe was pretty much right. Unless you want to discuss and give facts, save your energy.

Pam



 Posted: Tue Feb 16th, 2010 12:38 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
39th Post
borderuffian
Member


Joined: Fri Mar 13th, 2009
Location:  
Posts: 105
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

pamc153PA wrote: I understand the importance a person's heritage plays in his/her personal views. And it is never my intention to try to tell anyone their feelings about their personal history are wrong. But when you are dealing with something as inflamatory as the CBF, Southern heritage, slavery, etc., you must be aware that there are two sides to this--otherwise why would you bring this to a "discussion?" I wouldn't think you would assume everyone would agree with you, even if we were all of Southern heritage like you. But you are acting that way, sorry to say, csamillerp.

It pisses me off to no end that my own CW ancestors in the 153rd PA in the XI Corps got the false reputation as a "damn, lazy Dutchman," not once but twice blamed for a failure to hold the flank when that failure really was that of the commanders. But I also know that when I come here to discuss, there are others who don't see it that way, and so instead of having a hissy fit (temper tantrum) when someone says something I don't like about my "heritage," I come prepared with facts, to discuss, not stamp my feet and cry foul.

borderruffian, I'm thinking you just want a fight, and so nothing will convince you. Joe was pretty much right. Unless you want to discuss and give facts, save your energy.

Pam



When you know you are right you don't give in...


{The 153rd PA were..}
           )(_         #%$#



 Posted: Tue Feb 16th, 2010 12:56 am
   PM  Quote  Reply 
40th Post
susansweet3
Member


Joined: Tue Sep 11th, 2007
Location:  
Posts: 312
Status: 
Offline
Mana: 

  back to top

Now that is rude.  This is supose to be a discussion board .

Last edited on Tue Feb 16th, 2010 12:57 am by susansweet3



 Current time is 05:23 pmPage:  First Page Previous Page  1  2  3  4  5  Next Page Last Page  
Top




UltraBB 1.17 Copyright © 2007-2008 Data 1 Systems
Page processed in 0.2265 seconds (12% database + 88% PHP). 31 queries executed.