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 Posted: Sun Feb 14th, 2010 04:44 am
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csamillerp
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I am from south carolina born and raised, and being from south carolina i will always be a reb. But for the last several years ( more like 15 years) south carolina has been bombarded by the naacp and other organizations to remove the flag from at first the state building and then recently off the capital grounds. i would love to have others input on this matter, should it be removed or should it remain there in respect for the 240,000 confederates that died following it during the civil war? in my opinion Huckabee said it best. when visiting columbia south carolina in the fall of 2008 a reporter asked him what he thinks should be done about the flag on state grounds and he said, " I know that if someone came to my homestate of arkansas and told us where to put our flag we'd tell them where to put the pole."



 Posted: Sun Feb 14th, 2010 01:35 pm
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susansweet3
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I have seen the monument and the flag. It is inside the fence where the monument stands. When it was flown over the statehouse I think it was wrong. It only started flying over the state house during the Civil Rights era in South Carolina, so the intent was not to honor the dead of the Civil War but had other meanings.

Placing a Confederate flag with the monument does not bother me except I believe it is the wrong flag. Instead of the battleflag I think it would have been better to fly the Stars and Bars or the 2nd or 3rd National. Those do not seem to offend as much.

That said it is interesting that no one seems to mind the gigantic statue of Hampton on the other side of the statehouse ,which is not Hampton as the governor but Hampton the warrior on horseback with the names of all the battles he was in around the bottom of the base. I found that curious .



 Posted: Sun Feb 14th, 2010 04:02 pm
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csamillerp
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the stars and bars were replaced with the battleflag and that is what most people associate with the confederacy. the war was not fought over slavery only 11% of the souths white population owned slaves as they were very expensive, so the majority of the common footsoldier didnot own slaves. those footsoldiers followed the battleflag into combat so it was under that flag that they lost their lives.



 Posted: Sun Feb 14th, 2010 04:34 pm
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javal1
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"the stars and bars were replaced with the battleflag"

When?



 Posted: Sun Feb 14th, 2010 04:36 pm
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ole
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the stars and bars were replaced with the battleflag and that is what most people associate with the confederacy.

The CBF did not "replace" any of the national flags. It was mostly used as a guidon to mark the flanks of a regiment, and then not as often as we've come to think.

 

the war was not fought over slavery only 11% of the souths white population owned slaves as they were very expensive, so the majority of the common footsoldier didnot own slaves.

Unfortunately, their government did, but that's a topic covered many times in many threads on this and other boards.

those footsoldiers followed the battleflag into combat so it was under that flag that they lost their lives.

That's the romantic version of history widely held by many. Men don't fight for a flag but for what it symbolizes. The CBF has been tainted by the careless use of it by some reprehensible people, therefore it has come to symbolize something quite different to a great many people.

South Carolina has a right to fly anything it pleases, and the NAACP has every right to object and to influence other organizations to shun the state when it comes to holding conventions and tournaments in that state.

Just some thoughts.

Ole



 Posted: Sun Feb 14th, 2010 04:43 pm
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Texas Defender
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  The battle flag did not  "replace" the Stars and Bars. The Stars and Bars was a national flag, the battle flag was not. The Stars and Bars was replaced as the national flag by the: "Stainless Banner" in 1863.

  The battle flag came into being because the Stars and Bars looked enough like the US flag to cause confusion on the battlefield. The battle flag was meant to be carried into battle. It was not meant to be a national flag.

  Because the: "Stainless Banner" also caused confusion,  it was modified in 1865 by adding a red stripe and that version was the last national flag of the Confederacy.

Flags of the Confederate States of America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 



 Posted: Sun Feb 14th, 2010 05:15 pm
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csamillerp
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the stars and bars were replaced with the battle flag because in the thick of battle it was hard to tell the difference between the stars and bars and the stars and strips. and i know that each regiment carried a battleflag and a regimental flag.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 04:06 am
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spoofseeker
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It is sad and it discusts me to no end, that we are expected to give up our herritage. The D.O.C. had a a monument at the County Court House where they few the Stars and Bars, and NAACP came in and made a fuss.Down in Shreveport Louisiana. But enough D.O.C. sympathizers came to aide of the D.O.C. when the NAACP had there protest, tht it still remains there to this day.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 04:36 am
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csamillerp
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im glad im not the only one that thinks that. im not racist but naacp has too much power if they can tell a state government to replace an object because they dont know the history or dont understand the history.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 10:54 am
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susansweet3
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Ole you summed up what I was going to say much better than I could .  Thanks for that. 

D.O.C. had a a monument at the County Court House

What is the D. O. C.?  I am not sure to who this is ?  Do you mean the UDC?  United Daughters of the Confederacy ? 

those footsoldiers followed the battleflag into combat so it was under that flag that they lost their lives.


From what I have read the battle flag was only used by certain troops .  Cleburne's men followed the Hardee flag, I have seen many different flags on display that the soldiers of the Confederacy fought under  and lost their lives.  The battle flag was a square .  The rectangular flag that as Ole says has been been tainted by the careless use of it by some reprehensible people,  was a Navy flag . 



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 12:53 pm
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csamillerp
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no matter what flag it is doesnt change the point. the naacp wants the flag down and the flag on the state grounds REPRESENTS the actions and sacrafices that the confederate soldiers took. If the naacp wants to say that the confederate flag represents oppression and racism when that flags nation only lasted five years then why dont they say the american flag that held slavery for three hundred years represent the same thing? Does the naacp know that A. Lincoln wanted to deport all african americans to the dominican republic?



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 02:44 pm
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TimK
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I have no problem with people that are proud of their heritage. However to many, many people, this flag has become a symbol of hate. Blacks, Jewish people, Catholics, and most anybody that doesn't believe in white supremacy have over time learned to see hate when they see this flag. Right or wrong, that is what it has evolved into.

http://www.adl.org/hate_symbols/racist_confederate_flag.asp



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 03:10 pm
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csamillerp
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that is what it has evloved into to uneducated people. if you will say an object symbolizes hate then you can say guns are a symbol of hate. If people that say the confederate flag symbolizes hate then they just dont have any sense at all. Lincoln made the war about slavery, not the confederacy



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 03:15 pm
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pamc153PA
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A similiar situation to this is the swastika. If you are not Jewish, you may not feel it as strongly as you feel about the SC flag, but it is exactly the same for anyone who was persecuted by the Nazis, which also included Roma, Catholics, homosexuals, and political prisoners. The swastika in ancient times had a positive connotation, but it was the Nazis who, with their actions, turned the positive to the negative, so negative that to show a swastika now creates the same, perhaps even more violently negative reactions in people. If you were German and supported the Nazis (one finds it hard to believe that was possible but it was), then the swastika was a symbol of your heritage.

Pam



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 03:29 pm
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javal1
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"If people that say the confederate flag symbolizes hate then they just dont have any sense at all."

Some of us are old enough to remember the KKK beating and lynching blacks while carrying the flag. I still see it carried by white supremacists. Not once have I ever seen the SCV, UDC or other person so concerned about their heritage confront these idiots. Why?

You can blame the NAACP all you want, but much of the hate symbolism now associated with the flag comes from the inaction (and actions) of Southerners themselves.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 03:56 pm
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csamillerp
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hate comes from the people that carry it. Yankee's can hate it all they want but southerners will respect it.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 04:01 pm
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csamillerp
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Then we all can say the american flag is a symbol of hate because america destroyed the native americans, i happen to be 2/3 seminole and if objects can define hate then i want the american flag taken off my state building.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 04:19 pm
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javal1
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Great. Start a movement. Start a boycott. You have that right - just like the NAACP.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 04:22 pm
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ole
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i want the american flag taken off my state building.Lodge a protest. Stage a march. See if the NAACP will help. Maybe you can persuade the NCAA to stay out of the state.



 Posted: Mon Feb 15th, 2010 04:28 pm
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pamc153PA
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If you feel as strongly about your Native American heritage as that, then I suppose you'd want to also not have state capitol building, to start out with. Or a state that it represents.

This is not a tit-for-tat issue, nor is it an uncomplicated issue. I think it is a bit of a cop out to simply say it's the people that carry the hate, IMO. It's as much of an insult for Southerners who support the SC flag issue to say we want to keep it because of what it means to our heritage (whatever that is--last time I looked we were all one country and had been again for about 150 years) and anyone else be damned, as it is an insult for the Federal government to say we took that land of yours because well we needed it, and just wanted it, and the Native Americans who had lived on it for thousands of years be damned. Not a simple resolution to the fallout from either one.

Pam



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