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| Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 01:21 pm |
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1st Post |
McClellansYankeeBelle
Member
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Being raised in the North, I once thought that the rebel battle flag was a horrible Satanic symbol and I loathed anyone that displayed it on their pick-up. When I moved to GA for a while, I gained a totally different appreciation for what this flag really stands for... but now, that I am back in the North again, I'm still frustrated by the symbol, but finally, I know why! The people that display this flag on their trucks were largely raised and educated just like me. We learned that this flag is negative; symbolic of racism. When they wave these flags, they are largely saying they are racist. Now instead of the flag offending me, it is the ignorance of the Northern people that display it. I have found VERY FEW know the real meaning at all...present company excluded, of course. 
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| Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 05:20 pm |
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2nd Post |
HankC
Member
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Just as 'Paris Hilton' no longer means a great place to stay in France and the first definition of 'gay' is not 'happy', seldom is the reason for displaying the CBF to represent the history of the Confederate soldier.
We may not *like* it, but cannot control it.
However, I believe our beef is with the 1948 segregationist Dixiecrats, not Americans of Northern heritage 
HankC
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| Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 06:24 pm |
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3rd Post |
Cannonball
Member
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I, too, get very frustrated at the use of that flag as anything but historical. If I chose to fly that flag, it does not mean that I am a racist, it does not mean, I support the KKK or Neo-Nazi type hate groups. It means that I respect the men that fought under that flag. Just as I respect the men that have fought and will fight under the great American flag. I cringe when I see the CBF used in hate. It is truly what the bumper sticker says "Heritage, Not Hate."
Robb
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| Posted: Thu Jul 6th, 2006 06:24 pm |
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4th Post |
| Posted: Fri Aug 11th, 2006 05:38 pm |
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5th Post |
younglobo
Member
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I too disapprove of those that fly the CBF for there own reasons or those that say the flag is a Hate symbol, I fly the the MO. Confed brigade flag or 1st national and they have no idea what it stands for some ask me of course and are educated.
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| Posted: Fri Aug 11th, 2006 07:10 pm |
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6th Post |
indy19th
Guest
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Unfortunately, a lot of people who enjoy that flag our, in fact, racists.
Just curious, but for those who outwardly fly that flag, why? Why do you fly a flag of a "country" that only lasted four years? Is it simply to somehow honor an ancestor or are there other reasons?
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12th, 2006 03:06 am |
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7th Post |
James Longstreet
Member
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I have it up to honor my ancestors who died under it. But the KKK and other hate groups also fly the American flag, does that make the American flag a hate symbol?
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14th, 2006 07:30 pm |
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8th Post |
indy19th
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James Longstreet wrote: I have it up to honor my ancestors who died under it. But the KKK and other hate groups also fly the American flag, does that make the American flag a hate symbol?
It is to some people, but why change the subject?
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| Posted: Mon Aug 14th, 2006 11:04 pm |
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9th Post |
James Longstreet
Member
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Because it makes about as much sense to me to say the Confederate flag is racist as it does that the American flag is racist. The Confederacy had slavery for four years, but the U.S. had slavery for about 80 years. And today, both flags are flown by racist and hate groups.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 12:54 pm |
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10th Post |
indy19th
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James Longstreet wrote: Because it makes about as much sense to me to say the Confederate flag is racist as it does that the American flag is racist. The Confederacy had slavery for four years, but the U.S. had slavery for about 80 years. And today, both flags are flown by racist and hate groups.
Who called the Confederate flag racist? I didn't. I simply pointed out that a lot of those people who fly it are racist. Would you not agree that, based on no scientific surveys whatsoever, that a greater percentage of those that fly the Confederate flag are racist as compared to those that don't?
BTW, I laugh when I hear the comparsion of slavery in the U.S. compared with slavery of the Confederacy. Northern states abolished slavery on their own. Southern states had to have it taken away by force. Slavery lasted much longer in southern states. Slavery lasted for the entire life of the Confederacy. Oh, and for those 80 years, slavery ALWAYS existed in southern states, which, as you should know, was part of the U.S.. You can't say it existed the entire length in northern ones.
Last edited on Tue Aug 15th, 2006 03:30 pm by
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 02:55 pm |
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11th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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I fly the 1st Conf. National flag at my house. I fly it to remember history and heritage, people and a way of life. I also fly the Americn flag for the same reasons.
"Lest we forget......"
Albert Sailhorst, Scott's Battery
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 03:41 pm |
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12th Post |
naakke
Member
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The flag represents a lot of things to a lot of people and it seems that in conversations that I have had, none of those reasons resemble what the flag was created for.
Start with B. Franklin's wood cut of a snake in several pieces representing the American Colonies entitled "Join Or Die". He was calling for unity, not in a drive for independence from the crown, but in unity against the threats posed during the French and Indian War.
The Gadsden "Don't Tread On Me" flag evolved directly from an article written by Franklin regarding the unique elements of the rattlesnake and the use of the symbol and phrase by the budding Continental Marines.
The flags of the Confederacy speak to me of many of the same ideals that brought out nation independence. A nation is not a conglomeration of its political wranglings. It is the unity of a people or group of peoples with common heritage and destiny. Our colonial fathers were not interested in letting any power tread on their pursuit of life, liberty and happiness. The imposition of values by one region on another was an unconscienable act to the Southern Americans. They were not willing to be tread on. The flags of the Confederacy say of those flying them for correct reasons, "I will not be tread on by any who seek to force me and my family to live by their values and deprive me of my God-given rights."
The Battle Flag stands even more unique in its defining purpose. As a symbol of the armed forces of the Confederacy, it stands as a symbol of sacrifice just as the Stars and Stripes stands for the United States today. I saw the Star Spangled Banner in D.C. I felt so much pride in being part of a nation full of men with the balls to lay it on the line for what the rights and freedom of their family and people. The CBF represents a body of men who are immortalized, not by a flag, but by the indomitable spirit of unity of purpose and willingness to sacrifice for the right to live according to their own ideals and values.
Live Free or Die
Don't Tread on Me
I don't fly the flag because I do not feel that I have the right to. The courage, honor, and integrity that is bound up in the blood shed beneath it is something special that I respect and honor in the classroom as I teach, but even though I am 5 direct generations removed from a veteran of the Confederacy, I am not a man of enough character and courage to stand beside my forefathers beneath this flag.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 03:52 pm |
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13th Post |
javal1
Grumpy Geezer
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"I don't fly the flag because I do not feel that I have the right to. The courage, honor, and integrity that is bound up in the blood shed beneath it is something special that I respect and honor in the classroom as I teach, but even though I am 5 direct generations removed from a veteran of the Confederacy, I am not a man of enough character and courage to stand beside my forefathers beneath this flag."
Very well stated. Your forefathers would be proud. It seems hard for some to distinquish between the "cause" of the Confedearcy and the young men that did the fighting.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 04:42 pm |
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14th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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Not flying the flag for the reasons mentioned is a choice (and one I respect); however, in flying it, we give ourselves and those around us, a reason to remember the things and people that made, and continue to make, this nation great. It reminds us of the past, the mistakes that we've made, and how and why those mistakes were made. Flying it also reminds us of of the good things that this nation has done, not only for itself, but for other nations as well. Flying it gives us the opportunity to teach others a bit about our history and heritage. Speaking for myself, as a historian and hobbyist, I am obligated to teach when the opportunity rises, and, given the chance, I will create that opportunity rather than keep it hidden.
No, I have not shed blood, mine or another person's, under any flag. But members of my family have, since before the United States was created. My ancestors have given me the right to remember and honor them. They have passed to me a torch of pride, honor and dignity for the things that they've done and the beleifs and principles that they stood for. They sacrificed and stood tall. Because of them, I may never have to sacrifice; but I can certainly stand tall and fly the flag for them, for our past and for a belief in the future.
Albert Sailhorst, Scott's Battery
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 04:48 pm |
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15th Post |
James Longstreet
Member
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I would have to agree that probably the greater percentage of people who fly the flag are racist. It's just a sad fact. And most of those people have little idea of origins; they probably know very little about the men who died flying it. But Indy, would you not agree that slavery would have eventually died of natural causes anyway?
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 04:48 pm |
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16th Post |
| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 04:52 pm |
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17th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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Thanks, naakke!
Your post was very well researched and very well written! It certainly caused me to take a deeper look!
Albert Sailhorst
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 06:09 pm |
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18th Post |
younglobo
Member
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OK i may step on some toes here but here goes .. I severly doudt that there is any flag that is 100 % blame free , yes the CBF is associated with slavery given, but think for a minute US cavalry men were riding under the US banner at Wounded Knee, and wont I even go into the Nazi flag , point being there is NO stainless banner but we live in a free nation and i think we have become to thin skinned , I have the freedom to fly the CBF and my KKK neighbor does also that is what America is all about , but we now live in a world of i dont like what your doing you must conform to my way of thinking, as my grandfather would say "i've had worse scrapes on my eyeball" in other words toughen up and move on. Now i will jump off my soap box and retreat to the campfire.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 06:26 pm |
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19th Post |
James Longstreet
Member
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I agree, the U.S. flag was flying above some pretty horrible atrocities committed by the U.S. Cavalry toward the Native Americans. I mean, George Custard was genocidal...It's pretty sad when Adolf Hitler admired America for its treatment of Native Americans...I'm straying off subject. But yeah, I would say most flags aren't 100 percent blame free, as younglobo said.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 15th, 2006 06:38 pm |
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20th Post |
indy19th
Guest
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James Longstreet wrote: But Indy, would you not agree that slavery would have eventually died of natural causes anyway?
That sounds like a line from "Gods and Generals." Not exactly sure what it means, but it sounds like something that I believe the founders of our nation thought too, but then came the cotton gin to make slavery more profitable.
Because slavery MIGHT die at some unknown date in the future, does that mean it should have been tolerated?
The south's financial well being depended on slavery. That's the main reason they seceded. Without secession and then the war, who knows how long slavery would have lasted. Probably at least until the 20th Century, which would have put further stains on America.
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