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 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 01:34 am
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booklover
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While I, of course, realize the act of naming a war is more than just a way to identify it, it strikes me as silly that anyone can argue about this! Neo-Confederates want "The War of Northern Aggression" obviously because it fits in with their point of view. "War of the Rebellion" is also fraught with meaning because it's used in a way to point out that rebelling against the federal government and union was an illegal action designed to "save" slavery. I'v always found it funny that Neo-Cons try to point out that calling it a "Civil War" is wrong because of the taking over the government thing. Doesn't any of them own a dictionary? I lump this in with the "Did the South have the right to secede" or "was it rebellion or revolution" questions--they will never be answered to anyone's satisfaction and will promote nothing but discord.

As a side note, I once saw a letter written by Woodrow Wilson where he gave is opinion that the fighting during his presidency should be called "World War I". I've forgotten his complete statement, but he closed with something to the effect that "you'll understand if I don't answer anymore of these freaking stupid questions."

Best
Rob



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 01:40 am
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javal1
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"Yeah, that's my next T-shirt: 'The War to Kick Seccesionist Butt Institute.'"

Yeah, you're laughing now, but wait till you have to type
htpp://www.thewartokickseccesionistbutt.com/forum everytime just to get here. :P (and yes, I deliberately mispelled http so it wouldn't make an actual link. At least until I finish purchasing the domain name).



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 02:59 am
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JoanieReb
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Excellent thread, and management there-of, General Clewell:  I salute you.

Well, I'm going to be sincere here before I join in the cleaver funnery - It happens sometimes.  Also, I am going to use abbreviations, since everyone here knows what those abbreviations mean, and you wouldn't want me to taunt carpel-tunnel syndrome by typing out the long, space-eating terms, would you?

I have preferred to say "TWBTS", because to me, it sounds stronger and more definitive than "CW". 

"CW", to me, is a generic term, so must be qualifued by "US" in front of it.  "United States Civil War" is, I think, technically correct, but it used to sound so ironic to me: USCW = Disunited states making war on each other  = TWBTS. 

However, as I get older, I see a kind of story in the term "United States Civil War".

Living as far North as I do now, I cannot say "TWBTS" in casual converstation.  The eyes of "The average Joe and Joanne" glaze over at the mention of "The Civil War"  (Oh, No!  High-school history!).  Saying "TWBTS" often brings on looks of confusion...where have they heard that before?  It is So Much "The Civil War" here that even saying "The United States Civil War" can make some people miss a beat.  I once had a very bright twelve-year-old (I mean that!) ask me if that was Vietnam.

I enjoy referring to The USCW as TWBTS at CWi, because boards are the only place I can use that term these days, it's an indulgence. 

However, "CW" is understood in every state in the US these days, whereas I don't think any other reference is.  So, if This Board wishes to go with "CW", I accept that.

As I recall, "Strange and Fascinating Facts of the CW" (I think that is the title; another boxed book), had listed about 50 different names for the CW....

Later,

Joanie

 

Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 03:12 am by JoanieReb



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 02:01 pm
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PvtClewell
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Hey Joanie,

TWBTS — would that be pronounced 'Twibits?' I still think it suggests a war between two or more states — like Vermont versus New Hampshire, and "War Among the States" just plualrizes it, like Connecticut, Pennsylvania and Georgia ganging up on Tennessee, Delaware and Rhode Island. (I think the name for that is 'Congress.')

The United States Civil War is good, though, if a little wordy.

Hey Rob,

I agree. I think all this would be silly, too, if so many people didn't take it so darn seriously. Maybe that's what makes it worth discussing.
I had a question about your sidebar — were they really trying to decide to name it 'World War I" at least 15 years before there was a World War II? Did they see WWII coming? Am I misunderstanding something? Wow. Interesting.


I think Calcav might be on to something. Gordon, Sherman, Lincoln and Lee, to name a few, all called it the Civil War. They lived it, I guess they would know. I tell my red-neck snake friend that Lee called it the Civil War and he offers no response. Then I run.

Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 02:02 pm by PvtClewell



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 02:55 pm
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booklover
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PvtClewell,

Let me see if I can find the letter in the next day or so, but it did mention World War I specificially by name. I just have to remember what book I saw it in.

By the way, hope I didn't come across as sounding like I thought your post was silly. I meant the fact that anyone would have to have this discussion anywhere. It seems to me as just another way to muddy the waters.

Best
Rob



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 07:05 pm
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PvtClewell
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Rob,

No, no, no, no, no. I never thought that you thought the post was silly. I really do agree with you that the argument is based in silliness, though. Growing up, I always thought the war was known universally as the Civil War, and when I learned somewhere in my youth that some people preferred different names for it, I thought they were getting a bit too technical about it, if not downright anal. And silly.

I think my southern friends like to needle me about it because I probably appear to be this vulnerable Yankee swimming here in a sea of grits and redeye gravy. But clearly, this debate persists on various levels of intensity, and has since the end of the war itself. I just thought it might be a good thread for some blather on The War the Secessionists Started Interactive Discussion Board. Turns out, it was.

Can't wait to see the World War I name thing, by the way. It blows my mind that they actually called it WWI long before WWII. Apparently, they were not very optimistic, were they? I always thought it was known as The Great War until The Greater War came along.

Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 08:33 pm by PvtClewell



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 07:35 pm
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ole
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Let's not talk about red-eye gravy. My first experience with it was abysmal. Allowing faith to overrride reson, I tried it again. Call me stupid! It's not gravy. It's ham fat.

Will wait with you for calling the Great War WWI. To me, it's inconceivable, but I'll have to admit, possible.

ole



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 07:45 pm
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younglobo
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Will always be the civil war to me .

"Yeah, that's my next T-shirt: 'The War to Kick Seccesionist Butt Institute.'"
PVT. dont think your reb snake stomper would appreciate that shirt either.

 

Wars have crazy names I have wondered about the ww1 ww2 thing before , also why call them "indian wars" the Indians didnt start em and makes it sound like Indians fighting indians.

 



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 08:32 pm
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PvtClewell
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Ole,

Aren't you supposed to sop up the red-eye gravy with a lard biscuit? Mmmm, good. (Gag, gag). No wonder clogged arteries run rampant through here.

I refuse to open up a thread on red-eye gravy. Let's move on.

Younglobo,

You bring up an interesting thought here. French and Indian War? Seminole War? How do wars get their names anyway? Maybe we should become the official editors for naming wars. Naaah. Sounds too much like work. But your point is well taken.



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 08:48 pm
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younglobo
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PVT.. and i have been accused of being a slacker so work bad.

One other random thought , why should it surprise us that this nation can't come up with a name on this war they couldn't even name the battles the same ie . is it Bull Run or Manassas . and i know that is what each side called the battle but the war is over like 150 plus years ago so pick a name , man what a high school students nightmare.

 



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 09:07 pm
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PvtClewell
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Younglobo,

Wow. I came this close (_see?) to starting a thread on the names of battles a few days ago, but then I fell into Pipe Creek and got stuck. I guess this is just a natural progression on naming things. Another good point. You're on a roll.

Early in the war, Confederatess generally named battles after nearby towns (Sharpsburg) while the Feds went with geographical landmarks (Antietam). So is Gettysburg the Battle of Willoughby Run? Is Fredericksburg the Battle of the Rappahannock? I'm not sure when or why this happened.

I need a drink.



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 09:36 pm
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JoanieReb
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OK:

It's  "Bull-nassas" and "Sharps-tietam".

"The War Between a Bunch of States and Territories".

"Mr. Lincoln's War of Northern Aggression to Suppress the Rebellion and Kick Successionist Butt",

And, TWBTS is pronouced Twib-tis.

Hope that clarifies a few things, :P;):D:cool:

General Clewell, Please pass the grits and Red-Eye Gravy.

Dear Lord, we aren't going to do the Grits thing again, are we?  Go directly to "Southern Gentleman", do not pass "GO", do not collect $200.00.

Last edited on Wed Jul 18th, 2007 09:39 pm by JoanieReb



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 10:34 pm
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CleburneFan
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(Joannie Reb, if the grits are made with cheddar cheese, we can start the grits thing again.:D)

One of my favorite names for the war is the euphemistic "The Late Unpleasantness." I like it because it is actually a useful phrase to apply to so many of life's difficulties.



 Posted: Wed Jul 18th, 2007 11:43 pm
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PvtClewell
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Joanie,

I do believe, my little chitlin, that 'Twib-tis' is the Yankee pronunciation.



 Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 01:37 am
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JoanieReb
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General Clewell,

My Big Ol' Dish of Scrapple,

Of Course it is the Yankee pronounciation; there is no Southern one!  Only a Yankee would try to say "TWBTS" as an acronym:shock::P;):D:cool:.

 

Last edited on Thu Jul 19th, 2007 05:55 am by JoanieReb



 Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:05 am
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booklover
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OK, should have known better than to think that I could easily find the book that had the letter in it. I did a google search and nothing came up on it either.

After some careful consideration, I think it might be possible that it was referred to by Wilson as "The World War" and not World War I, however. But until I can find the damn book, I can't say for sure.

Best
Rob



 Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 02:09 am
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Johan Steele
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The War of Rebellion...TWoR for short.. twor a really nasty fight you know.

As to grits... ok if I can put milk & sugar on them again.

Ole's getting frisky... give him 5 mos and he'll rule the world!



 Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 06:37 am
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susansweet
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Dennis I agree the Civil War is the least offensive to either side. 

By the way my favorite quote of all time is Andrew Jackson. . . . It's a damned poor man that can only spell a word one way." 



 Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 06:48 am
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If you say TWor out loud it sounds like a battle charge.  TWOR!!!!!! Pass the cheezy grits

 



 Posted: Thu Jul 19th, 2007 05:37 pm
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JoanieReb
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Johann Steele wrote:

"The War of Rebellion...TWoR for short.. twor a really nasty fight you know."


THAT  IS FUNNY!

 

Susan Sweet wrote:

"By the way my favorite quote of all time is Andrew Jackson. . . . It's a damned poor man that can only spell a word one way." 



Hahahahahahahaha!

Another good laugh, thanks!

 



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