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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 02:41 pm |
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1st Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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I have a replica Colt Navy .44. Foolishly, I accidently removed the bluing from the barrel while trying to remove a bit of light rust.
Anyway, I am trying to re-blue it using the liquid form of Perma-Blue.
Following the directions, I apply a coat with a spnge, wait one minute, rinse in water and repeat the process.
Thus far, (after working on it off and on for a few weeks now) all I've managed to do is produce a light "stain" of bluing.
Any suggestions???....(I bet Johann knows!!!)
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 03:46 pm |
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2nd Post |
Bama46
Guest
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Good Luck!
You are using a cold blue method when the factory used a hot blue. cold blue touchup is designed for VERY small spots where the bluing was just lightened, not removed...how big is the area? If it is a larger area or the entire barrel, you probably want to send it to a good gunsmith who can hot blue it.
An alternative is to brown it.. browning is allowing the OUTSIDE of the barrel to rust, lightly steel wool it, allow it to rust (you have to wet the barrel, repeat until it is ncely borwn, then oil the barrel to stop the process
Ed
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:30 pm |
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3rd Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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Bama,
Primarily, it's the barrel I'm re-doing. I don't think it's worth the price for a gunsmith to do it. A sutler at our last event guessed it would cost $150.
Now, if I browned it, how authentic would it be? Also, the cylinder matches the bluing better than the brown......
How "permanant" is the method I'm using? I know over time I'll have to touch it up, but how long can I depend on it to last?
Thanks!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:39 pm |
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4th Post |
ole
Member
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There is (or was) a gunsmith supply outfit in Iowa called Brownell's. Google that for a better cold blue than you'll find in a Wal-Mart sporting goods section.
If you're talking about a pistol-barrel only, you may be able to hot blue it on a stove-top. (Preferably on an outdoor burner in a cheap steel pot. Do not, I repeat, do not borrow the kitchen cookware.)
ole
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 04:47 pm |
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5th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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Thanks, Ole!!
I have an outdoor burner, so how to I hot-blue it?
It sounds to me like hot bluing is better....
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 05:34 pm |
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6th Post |
Bama46
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I have never tried to hot blue, but I do know that preperation is paramont.....
Also, listen to Ole, do not use anything that you ever plan to eat out of again and wear a mask.That stuff is corrosive.
I think Brownells is still around, and if not, try MIDWAY USA.. they are good people, sell good products, reasonably priced and stand behind them. In addition, they have a customer service department that can offer advice. I have used them for years.
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 06:52 pm |
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7th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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In looking at Bownell's website, my opinion is the Dicropan T-4 cream (cold blue) is probably the best. Here's the descritpion of it:
T-4 is unsurpassed in its ability to color many different steels almost instantly. The creme formula makes it even better for spot touch-ups…stays where you put it so surrounding bluing is unaffected.
In y'all's opinion, is this what I need??
Thanks!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:31 pm |
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8th Post |
Bama46
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Well, you can dismiss some of it a product fluff...
Having said that, I suspect a creame will do better than a liquid..because it will stay put. Bear in mind that it is for spot touch ups..according to your statement. Spot touch up cold blue does not do very well over large areas because of uneven bluing, streaking etc.. and you get a lighter finished area than the surrounding areas.
Someone used to make a cold blue product that was advertized as a gun rebluing instead of spot bluing..I wonder if that would do a better job..
I have not had to use any bluing in 30 or more years..
Once you have this fixed, invest is a product called RIG. That is Rust Inhibiting Grease...put some on a small pieceof sheepskin ..a rig rug, and wipe down your firearms with it..they don't rust!!! I bought a small jar of it 25 years ago, still have 50% of the jar and use it often..
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:33 pm |
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9th Post |
ole
Member
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You're on your own there, Albert. If Brownell's says its good, then it is. They haven't been in business this long by screwing over their customers.
I gave up my FFL in '71. Haven't visited the site since then. But, in my opinion, give it a shot.
ole
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:34 pm |
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10th Post |
ole
Member
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Double post deleted. Curses! Been doing this for years and I still mess up. Last edited on Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:38 pm by ole
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:38 pm |
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11th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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Thanks bama & Ole!
bama, I agree: it is described as for touch-ups, which did scare me.
Actually, at this point, I am so frustrated with my stupid mistake, thus ruining the gun and causing me to do way more work than I wanted to, it wouldn't bother me if it streaked....
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 07:47 pm |
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12th Post |
ole
Member
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Albert: This is how you learn. **** up once and you know what to do the next time. It's the price you pay. And isn't it always the way? I do wonder how the rust got started in the first place. Another lesson. Which reminds me ... I'd better go wipe down the pieces I haven't looked at in years. Thanks for the heads up.
ole
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 08:23 pm |
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13th Post |
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352
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There used to be a little gunshop in downtown Moline... $150 seems VERY steep but then again I prefer Rust Blueing and that takes time.
Brownells is an excellent source; they won't screw you.
Geez good advice from everybody all around. We got some smarts on this site...
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 08:25 pm |
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14th Post |
Bama46
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aah..don't let something like that fustrate you.. you still have all your fingers, nobody got hurt and the sun will come up tomorrow.
Thinkhow good you are gonna feel when you actually get it fixed..and you will..just takes a little experimentation to get the result you want... and I'll bet this is the LAST firearm htat ever rusts on you.. until, that is, you have grown children who borrow a pistol giving the absolute promise that it will be promptly cleaned after use and then return it 6 mos later uncleaned.. at that point, you get to explore another concept...rage! LOL
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 08:49 pm |
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15th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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Actually, I bought the gun around 1981, as a kit. It cost me $50. A guy I knew made flint-lock rifles from scratch (even rifling the barrels himself) and he helped me with it. Initially, the barel was full of mill marks which had to be sanded off. Then, he blued the barrel (I don't know how he did it, and he's since passed away, so I can't ask him). The gun stayed in it's original box untill 2006, when I decided to fire it at a reenactment. I took it home, cleaned it and put it away untill two weeks ago. I was going to take it with me last weekend to a reenacment, so I wanted to get her oiled. That's when I noticed some surface rust and foolishly put a small drop of rust remover on it. Consequently, the tiny drop ran all over the barrel, taking with it the blueing. If I just rubbed the rust with a cloth and oiled it, I wouldn't be in this mess!!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 09:15 pm |
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16th Post |
Bama46
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That puts a different complection on things. I had assumed you had a factory blued piece.... Were you around at all when he blued it? do you rmemember it going into a tank/trough of any kind? If you don't remember, that is good...
Actually, you may be in better shape than you thought. I think the thing to do is to contact someone at Brownells and discuss with them the blue kit that would likely have been used to home blue a kit gun. I really suspect this has been cold blued with a bluing agent designed to blue a kit gun. Then get a kit as close to that one as you can..use Brownells expertise and take their advice.
Bluing, like rusting is oxidation of the metal, rusting is uncontrolled, bluing is controlled... but the reason the rust remover removed the blue is that it removes oxidation. don't use it of firearms in the future.
If you get a small spot of rust, take a patch, soak it in gun oil and try to remove the rust with that. If you still see a little roughness, take the very finest steel wool you can get #0000 or finer, pull off a small piece, soak that in gun oil and VERY lightly rub the rough area no more than absolutely necessary.
This like everything else is learned thru experience..I have only been doing this stuff for better than 45 years
Ed
Last edited on Tue Apr 29th, 2008 09:18 pm by
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29th, 2008 09:35 pm |
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17th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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Bama,
You've been doing this 45 years??....hmmm....how about comming to Aledo and doing it for me??!!
I was 16 at the time we worked on it. I don't remember being around when he blued it....I could have been there or not.....I don't recall....
Johann---the Sutlery James Country guessed around $150. We were at Keokuk this past weekend. The Yanks could have used you....they had scarde infantry to ours....It was a rather lop-sided Pea Ridge!! The gun shop you mention is up the road from where I work (or so I'm told)
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 02:19 pm |
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18th Post |
Bama46
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Albert,
last night I contacted a very good friend who has been involved with firearms for even longer than I have. He points out that rust removers contain chemiclas designed to PREVENT new rust from forming by sealing the metal... rust and bluing are both oxidation... therefore, the chemicals in the rust remover are very possible preventing the bluing process from "taking".. You are going to have to get all traces of the rust remover off that barrel and again, I believe you need to contact someone who can offer specific advice..maybe even contacting the manufacturer of the rust remover to solicit their advice for cleaning of the residues.. That is going to be the key to whatever happens next
Ed
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 04:10 pm |
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19th Post |
Albert Sailhorst
Member
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Bama,
Thanks!
I worked on it some more last night, but I left out the step where it is rinsed off. I figure maybe if I just keep applying it, once it gets the deep shade I want, I can buff it out and re-apply more blueing to get it to the shade, buff, re-apply, etc....
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30th, 2008 04:20 pm |
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20th Post |
Bama46
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If it works..then you have fournd the solution..not rinsing it should not have any effect long term..it may just do the trick
Let me know.I am now really curious as to what finally fixes it
Ed
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