 |
| Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 12:04 pm |
|
1st Post |
Coy
Member
|
We poor western theater fans. Reading about the 'no casino' victory in the USA Today I see that the CWPT had classified Gettysburg as one of the countries most-endangered battlefields. Give me a break....Gettysburg endangered, from what? If the CWPT wants to see battlefields in danger why don't they look to Tennessee. Look at Stones River/Murfreesboro. How about Tullahoma? Franklin? CWPT needs to spread their fight. Mobilize toward the west and save some western battlefields. Gettysburg endangered? Indeed. SIGH
IMHO,
Kevin S. Coy
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 12:30 pm |
|
2nd Post |
javal1
Grumpy Geezer
|
LOL Coy. A few years back I ran into Jim Lighthizer at the Carter House. That year they had also included Gettysburg as a most endangered site. Jim and I exchanged pleasantries for a while, then I looked at him and said something like "C'mon Jim, you can't actually believe Gettysburg is one of the ten most endangered fields, can you? You put it on the list because Gettysburg is where the money is, didn't you?" I said it good-naturally and he took no offense. He just looked at me and gave me the most mischivious chesire cat grin I'd ever seen. I knew then I probably had it right. It's where the money is.
In fairness though, it should be pointed out that CWPT has often put endangered western theatre fields in the spotlight - Pea Ridge, Perryville, Parker's Crossroad's, etc. Good to see you on the board again!
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 01:36 pm |
|
3rd Post |
Doc C
Member
|
Agree with Coy about the west. How about Louisiana - Battles of Mansfield, Pleasant Hill or Mississippi - Battle of Champions Hil (possibly as or more important than Gettysburg)
Doc C
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 04:13 pm |
|
4th Post |
calcav
Member
|
CWPT has also been active in my area. They paired up with two local preservation groups and helped purchase land at Corinth, MS and Davis Bridge, TN.
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2006 03:59 am |
|
5th Post |
Widow
Member
|
Tom, you got it right indeed.
Recently on a weekday afternoon I was the only visitor in the Visitors Center at Manassas. The young man behind the counter apologized that there was no ranger to take me on a guided tour.
"Budget cuts, you know," he growled. "Gettysburg gets all the money."
"Yes," I answered, "and Gettysburg gets all the visitors."
Patty
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2006 04:44 am |
|
6th Post |
Basecat
Member
|
Coy wrote: We poor western theater fans. Reading about the 'no casino' victory in the USA Today I see that the CWPT had classified Gettysburg as one of the countries most-endangered battlefields. Give me a break....Gettysburg endangered, from what? If the CWPT wants to see battlefields in danger why don't they look to Tennessee. Look at Stones River/Murfreesboro. How about Tullahoma? Franklin? CWPT needs to spread their fight. Mobilize toward the west and save some western battlefields. Gettysburg endangered? Indeed. SIGH
IMHO,
Kevin S. Coy
Kevin,
I could not have said it any better. What is misleading about this whole casino issue is that where it was proposed to be built is not on historic ground, which seems to have been conveniently forgotten by those in the Preservation arena, and you know who I am talking about.
It's interesting to add that when we had our Muster out in Vicksburg, I don't recall anyone of the group visiting the many Casinos that are located there. While I was not in favor of Casinos at Gettysburg, since this whole issue started it was a local issue, and as it turned out it was handled locally as it should. When I think of the amount of money spent on this, it bothers me.
Hope all is well.
Regards from the Garden State,
Steve
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Fri Dec 22nd, 2006 11:16 pm |
|
7th Post |
| Posted: Sat Dec 23rd, 2006 05:10 am |
|
8th Post |
ole
Member
|
Basecat:
We traipsed all over Vicksburg and never once was the idea of visiting a casino entertained. Don't recollect anyone at the hotel or walks mentioning the casinos. We stood on that hill and looked at one for quite some time. Nobody went that I know of. Casinos can be fun, we've been to three and for the gdaughter's 21st birthday, gramma and an aunt and maybe the mom are going to treat her to a visit and maybe show her how bleary gramma and auntie can get. Haven't seen where casinos promote attendance. Winchell claimed that the introduction of casinos didn't hurt the park. I 'spose he is correct in that observation. I couldn't put myself in the place of the guy who will bring his family to tour the park and put his time in the casino. Doesn't quite factor. Just a thought.
Ole
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Sun Dec 24th, 2006 12:12 am |
|
9th Post |
JDC Duncan
Guest
|
Friends:
It's a double-edged sword. When I was a boy the Cabin Creek Battlesite was a few miles from my home in Northeastern Oklahoma. The SCV and the federal government had erected a few marble columns on part of the site in the 1930's. To get there, you had to know where it was - down gravel roads and across a farmer's field, who was gracious enough to leave the gate open. When I was in high school, we would gather there deep in the woods with bonfires and kegs.
I was very surprised to met a re-enactor at an event here at Fort Concho this year who told me the site had been developed by the state - visitor's center, parking lots, and what he termed the best re-enacting site he'd ever been to. I couldn't imagine it.
While I am glad that this Battlesite has garnered attention, and I'm sure the tiny towns in the area are glad for the traffic, there is still a little part of me that thinks of Big Cabin as my own secret.
Preservation in the East seems to be a race against development. Out here, it seems to be a race against discovery. One example near where I am now is Dove Creek - still empty desert on the edge of the Staked Plains. To get there, you have to know where it is ...
JDC Duncan
|
|
Back To Top
|
| You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post |
|---|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 08:00 pm |
|
10th Post |
indy19th
Guest
|
Coy wrote: We poor western theater fans. Reading about the 'no casino' victory in the USA Today I see that the CWPT had classified Gettysburg as one of the countries most-endangered battlefields. Give me a break....Gettysburg endangered, from what? If the CWPT wants to see battlefields in danger why don't they look to Tennessee. Look at Stones River/Murfreesboro. How about Tullahoma? Franklin? CWPT needs to spread their fight. Mobilize toward the west and save some western battlefields. Gettysburg endangered? Indeed. SIGH
IMHO,
Kevin S. Coy
The CWPT does look at Tennessee and "western" states. Just look at all the land they've saved at Ft. Donelson. They looked at Stones River a few years ago, but there was like a $20+ million price tag.
I'd say the good folks in Tennessee need to look in a mirror. Aren't all politics local? What are they doing to help preserve their own land? Blame the washed-up rocker for the destruction of the Jenkins House. Blame the locals who don't care if Murfreesboro is Nashville's little bedroom community.
You mention Franklin. Who's fault is it that they decided to build on land near the Carter House where some Academy was leaving or build on land north of Winstead Hill? Who helped turn the tide there, not only getting preservation-minded people on the county council, but also helped with turning a golf course back into something more resembling a battlefield park?
Given everything we know, it shouldn't be any surprise if more attention is paid to battles that happened to be fought in the East.
http://www.civilwar.org/landpreservation/l_accomplishments.htm
I just hope that all of you are putting your money where your mouth is. I've given, whenever I could, to battlefields as obscure as Mine Creek in Kansas and Parkers Crossroads in Tennessee to the well known ones like Ft. Donelson and Fredericksburg. Next time they ask for money for a Western Theatre battlefield, I hope you write a check with as much zeal, if not more.
Last edited on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 08:37 pm by
|
|
Back To Top
|
| You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post |
|---|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 08:08 pm |
|
11th Post |
indy19th
Guest
|
Doc C wrote: Agree with Coy about the west. How about Louisiana - Battles of Mansfield, Pleasant Hill or Mississippi - Battle of Champions Hil (possibly as or more important than Gettysburg)
Doc C
Uh, Mansfield has been on almost every single one of their Endangered lists.
I can hardly read any one of their quarterly magazines without hearing about the lignite mining that is the most serious threat to that battlefield. I've learned more about lignite mining from them than I ever cared to. They still saved 134 acres there.
They've saved nearly 500 acres at Champions Hill.
How many acres have the locals helped save?
|
|
Back To Top
|
| You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post |
|---|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 08:16 pm |
|
12th Post |
indy19th
Guest
|
I don't understand what some of you are saying about the casinos at Vicksburg. Y'all are exceptions in that you didn't go there for the casinos. You went there for the battlefield.
The problem is with the added traffic that comes from those that are going there strictly or mostly for the gambling. A casino at Gettysburg was the wrong thing at the wrong place.
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 09:42 pm |
|
13th Post |
Old Sorrel
Member
|
the Gettysburg casino idea was a disgrace. It needed to be defeated, and thank god it did.
As far as Gettysburg getting more of the attention,,, well it should because it gets more of the vistors. I was out west on my honeymoon in Sept. We went to Tenn. We visited Shiloh and was very imprest with its natural beauty. But when we visited places closer to Nashville, those battlefields were worse off. I did talk to a ranger at the Stones River Battlefield about the lack of presevation in this area. He replied in short, that there was no local interest from the people or its govn't.
So with that said, dont blame the CWPT because the locals in certain areas dont stand up and demand from their politions that their history be saved. Gettysburg was saved because a group of citizens stood up and made there voices heard and started a group to stop that casino.
Maybe some of you in your respective areas should start your own grassroots org. to help save our history. And for those of you that rip the CWPT,,, how many of you are members? If not maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and help.
The CWPT deserves all of our gratitude. They have helped save thousands of achers of battlefield land. Without them,, there sure as heck would be alot more parking lots trampling our history where men fought and died for us.
JR
Accomplishments
More than 24,000 acres of hallowed ground saved!
Accomplishments
More than 24,000 acres of hallowed ground saved
Alabama: 79.6 acres saved
Arkansas: 365.64 acres saved!
Georgia: 607.25 acres saved!
Kansas: 606.5 acres saved
Kentucky: 1033.217 acres saved!
Louisiana: 443 acres saved!
Maryland: 1060.396 acres saved!
Mississippi: 4061.939 acres saved!
Missouri: 303.578 acres saved!
New Mexico: 2.13 acres saved!
North Carolina: 1236.49 acres saved
Oklahoma: 184 acres saved!
Pennsylvania: 698.35 acres saved
South Carolina: 0.23 acres saved
Tennessee: 1139.94 acres saved
Texas: 3 acres saved
Virginia: 11099.06 acres saved
West Virginia: 727.4 acres saved!
http://www.civilwar.org/landpreservation/l_accomplishments.htm
Last edited on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 09:54 pm by Old Sorrel
|
|
Back To Top
|
| You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post |
|---|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 10:00 pm |
|
14th Post |
indy19th
Guest
|
Old Sorrel wrote: the Gettysburg casino idea was a disgrace. It needed to be defeated, and thank god it did.
As far as Gettysburg getting more of the attention,,, well it should because it gets more of the vistors. I was out west on my honeymoon in Sept. We went to Tenn. We visited Shiloh and was very imprest with its natural beauty. But when we visited places closer to Nashville, those battlefields were worse off. I did talk to a ranger at the Stones River Battlefield about the lack of presevation in this area. He replied in short, that there was no local interest from the people or its govn't.
So with that said, dont blame the CWPT because the locals in certain areas dont stand up and demand from their politions that their history be saved. Gettysburg was saved because a group of citizens stood up and made there voices heard and started a group to stop that casino.
Maybe some of you in your respective areas should start your own grassroots org. to help save our history. And for those of you that rip the CWPT,,, how many of you are members? If not maybe you should put your money where your mouth is and help.
The CWPT deserves all of our gratitude. They have helped save thousands of achers of battlefield land. Without them,, there sure as heck would be alot more parking lots trampling our history where men fought and died for us.
JR
Well said.
Not sure the glass half-empty crowd will take it to heart.
Last edited on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 10:08 pm by
|
|
Back To Top
|
| You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post |
|---|
| Posted: Thu Mar 29th, 2007 10:01 pm |
|
15th Post |
indy19th
Guest
|
While the park owns about 6,000 acres where heavy fighting occurred, the battle took place over 25,000 acres, he said, and he'd like to see as much preserved as possible.
"The budget hasn't been there in a lot of national parks for land acquisition," said Mary Goundrey of the Civil War Preservation Trust. "Really, the first step is getting the land preserved, the second step is making it look (as it did during the battle)."
The park hasn't had land acquisition funds since 2001, Lawhon said. There are privately owned areas within boundaries where the park would like to do more rehabilitation, she said.
About 19 percent of the acres in park boundaries are not owned by the park and are unprotected, Lawhon said.
"Those lands are threatened, possibly, by inappropriate development," said Cinda Waldbuesser of the National Parks Conservation Association. She'd like to see future funds dedicated toward land preservation as well as adjusting park boundaries to encompass some historically important lands that currently lie outside the park.
For example, Camp Letterman, east of **********, was a makeshift hospital during the battle, but it isn't officially part of the park, she said. Much of that land has already been developed, according to the park service.
http://www.ydr.com/newsfull/ci_5516299
Last edited on Thu Mar 29th, 2007 10:02 pm by
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 04:07 am |
|
16th Post |
susansweet
Member
|
Old Sorrel that was a great post. There is so much that has been done. We just need to make sure it continues.
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 04:48 am |
|
17th Post |
ole
Member
|
I wonder if there's a corollary here? I note that South Carolina has close to zero acres saved. Even New Mexico saved more. Land don't get preserved simply because CWPT considers it important. The state in which the ground is located must ultimately agree and apply a little weight in that direction. I was particularly impressed with Perryville. The NPS isn't involved, it's a state project, and it ranks in my mind well up in the hierachy of aggressively preserved battlefields. I can't imagine that it pays for itself, but it keeps on improving.
Ole
|
|
Back To Top
|
| You have chosen to ignore indy19th. click Here to view this post |
|---|
| Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 12:47 pm |
|
18th Post |
indy19th
Guest
|
ole wrote: I wonder if there's a corollary here? I note that South Carolina has close to zero acres saved. Even New Mexico saved more. Land don't get preserved simply because CWPT considers it important. The state in which the ground is located must ultimately agree and apply a little weight in that direction. I was particularly impressed with Perryville. The NPS isn't involved, it's a state project, and it ranks in my mind well up in the hierachy of aggressively preserved battlefields. I can't imagine that it pays for itself, but it keeps on improving.
Ole
What major battlefields need protected in South Carolina?
What's left in South Carolina that needs to be protected that isn't already?
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 01:27 pm |
|
19th Post |
Old Sorrel
Member
|
Indy19th wrote:
Well said.
Not sure the glass half-empty crowd will take it to heart.
I sure hope so, but unfortunitly some people just dont get it. All we can do is try and keep fighting.
susansweet wrote:
Old Sorrel that was a great post. There is so much that has been done. We just need to make sure it continues.
thanks, you bet, 24,000 acres is alot,,, we still have alot more that needs to be saved. With people like you and I,,, and the groups like the CWPT on our side, it will surely continue.
|
|
Back To Top
|
| Posted: Fri Mar 30th, 2007 02:19 pm |
|
20th Post |
David White
Member
|
Indy:
Uh, Mansfield has been on almost every single one of their Endangered lists.
I can hardly read any one of their quarterly magazines without hearing about the lignite mining that is the most serious threat to that battlefield. I've learned more about lignite mining from them than I ever cared to. They still saved 134 acres there.
I'm very close to this situation and nearly cancelled my CWPT membership this year over it, as it is; I cut it back to the minimum donation (instead as Old Sorrell suggested that budgeted money went to a grassroot.org and its very uphill battle against the man but that is an even longer topic). It is all lip service and no action on the part of CWPT. The original poster is correct they are concentrating on the east because they see that as most endangered. All well and good but not enough foresight IMO, because you end up paying Slaughter Pen prices for everything, where if you spread it out and acquired land before it is about to be developed you would get more bang for your buck.
As to the specifics of Mansfield, yes they bought some land a few years ago but as to the current crisis with the mining they will not provide a dime to help the legal action, only publicity. I don't think they have it on their endangered sites this year, maybe because it is too late.
Now why I'm mad at them, here we are fighting the mining company for using the mineral rights on the property they are leasing and meanwhile CWPT is leasing the mineral rights to the land they own in the area to other companies. No they aren't strip mining it, just getting natural gas from it. In some ways I'm ambivalent about that. On the bad side it is two faced to say its bad for the mining company to exploit the land, yet they are doing the same thing (even if it is not to the same degree). On the good side, it could be considered a wise thing to do, generate revenue to help with preservation efforts. My problem is the Mansfield revenues are buying Virginia land at the Slaughter Pen while Mansfield disappears and for that I am very angry.
How many acres have the locals helped save?
Doesn't this apply to the good folks in Virginia, most of the local authorities are the same no matter what their locale, they are looking at tax dollars and easy revenue versus strategically (sounds like the CWPT doesn't it?). Doesn't matter if they are in VA, LA, TX or any of the 47 others. In a place like LA it is a real up hill battle because there are mitigating factors like local poverty, extreme political corruption and Hurricane Katrina recovery that the good folks in Fredericksburg and VA don't have to contend with. That is why a national organization with the muscle of a CWPT should be stepping it up more there versus white collar Fredericksburg, just MO.
Last edited on Fri Mar 30th, 2007 02:42 pm by David White
|
|
Back To Top
|
Current time is 05:11 am | Page: 1 2 3 4   |
|
|
|
