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Oldie but a goodie!!! - Battle of Gettysburg - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
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 Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 12:29 am
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hardy545
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 Here is a link which defends his decsion . Interesting, short read. I still contend he should have been court martialed for disobeying orders that jeopardized "The Rest" of the AoP .

http://polyticks.com/Hole/Teaser.htm

Last edited on Thu Sep 18th, 2008 12:39 am by hardy545



 Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 12:58 am
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pamc153PA
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Ah, Crazy D, don't get me started on Barlow and the 11th Corps, not with the 153PA being my soft spot. 

I suspect that one thing Barlow had going for him was that he, and just about everyone else, could point the finger at those damn Dutchmen, who were cowards at Chancellorsville, and showed they were so again at Gettysburg--so went the feelings of the nation at that time about the German immigrants. So all Barlow had to do was say, "See, it wasn't me, they just don't listen and they don't fight," and everyone--this not being the PC present time--goes, "True, very true." And Barlow can pawn his own mistakes and prejudices off and cover his behind. Sickles was a good spin doctor, but he didn't have a basically unliked and unsupported immigrant population to dump on like Barlow did.

Whew! See what happens when you mention Barlow to me??;)

Pam



 Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 01:53 am
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Crazy Delawares
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I feel your rage, Pam! I feel your rage!



 Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 10:06 am
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gettysburgerrn
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I agree Pam and just based on the 11th corps experience at Chancellorsville that tainted them in the eyes of many. Barlow was then looking like the savior trying to stop the evil rebel hordes when his troops ran he didnt have 2nd corps, and 5th corps , and unlimited artillery, to back him up). That whole myth with him and Gordon helped him too no doubt..

ken



 Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 12:47 pm
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j harold 587
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Having recently completed The First Day by Phantz I got the impression that though Barlow was wrong to deploy on the high ground (as was Sickles) the eleventh Corps was basiclly over run by superior numbers. Do I need to take another look? Just when I thought I was getting a good handle on that action.



 Posted: Thu Sep 18th, 2008 03:00 pm
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PvtClewell
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j harold

I believe your initial impression is correct.

This summer our little group had an LBG tour of the 11th Corps, and our guide suggested that Barlow would have been better served maintaining a line closer to town, and specifically, nearer the Almshouse complex.

I also found out, Pam and Joe, that the 153rd PA actually had skirmishers on the west bank of Rock Creek when Early's Division came thundering upon Blocher's Knoll. Gordon's brigade hammered the 11th Corps' unanchored and unprotected right flank. If you look at the map on page 233 of Pfanz' book, you can see that Hays and Avery brigades had an unopposed wide open lane toward Gettysburg. Little wonder the 11th Corps crumpled.

They did OK on East Cemetery Hill the next day, though.

At least, that's how I see it.



 Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 12:00 am
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Crazy Delawares
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I believe you're dead on, Private!



 Posted: Fri Sep 19th, 2008 02:46 pm
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gettysburgerrn
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Basically the 11th corps was put in an untenable position, that would have been untenable for any troops. Early's men crashed down from a perfect position. The almshouse position was better but not an enviable position either...the position was commanded by the Bloecher's knoll position but more compact and with a somewhat less exposed flank.

One must also consider the withdrawal of Devin's cavalry brigade which was covering that flank (I think) and I would imagine knew of the approach of Early's division. What the authorities that recieved any reports did with that information I am not sure of ...just a thought...

BTW Doles' handling of his brigade was masterful in defeating other elements of 11th corps..

ken



 Posted: Fri Dec 11th, 2009 01:35 am
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Podad
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gettysburgerrn wrote: If people are going to kill longstreet...bear in mind that the delayed start of the attack allowed Sickles to make his blunder. Otherwise The ANV would have hit a solidly and better positioned federal army. Therefore the delayed attack actually increased the chances of success...

ken
I know this thread has been dormant for over a year, but I tend to agree with this theory. If Sickles had held his position as ordered It would have been even tougher on the Southern troops.

Since my Great Grandfather was with Gen. Wofford and the 24th Ga, and my grandfather wasnt born until 1880,  I may very well owe my existence to Gen Sickles decision that day.;)

Last edited on Fri Dec 11th, 2009 12:16 pm by Podad



____________________
We sleep here in obedience to law; When duty called, we came, When country called, we died. Inscription on Georgia Battlefield Monuments


 Posted: Tue Dec 29th, 2009 11:58 pm
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HallowedGround
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Podad wrote

Since my Great Grandfather was with Gen. Wofford and the 24th Ga, and my grandfather wasnt born until 1880,  I may very well owe my existence to Gen Sickles decision that day.;)

Very Cool Podad, I'm doing some research now, I believe I had an Ancestor in the Confederate Calvary.



 Posted: Mon Apr 19th, 2010 04:31 pm
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Whyme Two
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PvtClewell,

I agree with your take on Sickles move. People forget that Chancellorsville was only two months previous. The Union giving up the high ground in it's front and being out flanked on it's left were fresh in Sickles mind. By noon on July 2nd the Budford's cavalry protecting the Union left was removed and not replaced which weighted heavy on Sickles mind.

Meade had not inspected the Union left during day light hours even though Sickles pleaded with Meade help. Hunt didn't report back to Meade in a timely manner as to the plight on the Union left.

I personally think Longstreet's Corp would have sweep Cemetery Hill had Sickles Corp not taken the wind out of the sails with his move to the Emmitsburg Road.



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