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| Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 02:30 am |
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1st Post |
Bama46
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ladies and Gentlemen,
I just returned last night from my annual battlefield trip....13.5 hours in an SUV from gettysburg to Central Il.
We spent the majority of our time visiting Culps hill, the East Calvary Field and the Devil's Kitchen... our guide, a retired plastic surgeon, said that we were 1 of about 1,000 visitors that want to see these sights and have them interpreted for us...he was a gem!... we also sought out and found without the help of a guide the rock that Gen Brooke carved an "X" on after being wounded.. it is on the edge of the wheat feild (well, off the edge in the woods)
At Antietam we were treated to a tornado... no damage to the park, but a sycamore was dropped onto the path leading to Burnside bridge...no not THAT sycamore.. what a storm.. we waited it out with plenty of Yengling beer at the bar/resturant in Sharpsburg..
We also went to harpers Ferry and Charles Town and had a wonderful tour of the courthouse by a bailiff, followed by a visit to the hanging site. We had been there before and the owner's son took us on a tour of the grounds this time as the owner is in Florida. The home is for sale ...home on the grounds of the hanging site . (John Brown)
good Cigars,Good Bourbon, Good friends ( we all met as college freshmen 44 years ago and consider ourselves a family)... see what you have in store RTD and DG... the very best is yet to come!..
Next year we will go to my hometown and thence to Shiloh and then Vicksburg!
What a trip
Ed
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| Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 03:55 am |
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2nd Post |
Rebel Yell
Belle,Bourbon,Battlefields
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Sounds like it was a great trip, Bama. What do you think of NPS' efforts to restore Gettysburg to a more 1863 appearance??? I was there not long ago and the view from LRT is totally different. The Slaughter Pen area is much more visible. I was overall quite impressed.
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| Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 04:39 am |
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Bama46
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This has been going on for about 6 years or so and needs to be done..
One interesting thing that came out of our trip was a statement by our guide that LRT was not that important int he overall schemne of things... if the Confederates had been able to take it, they could not have held it given that about 6000 reserves were just north of LRT, and if they could have kept it, it would have been of little value to them.
When you go to LRT with that perspective, you see what he is talking about. There is no room for cannon to be trained northwards, ther is no way the Confederates could have hit Cemetery hill, and they could not have depressed fire enough to protect the hill from efforts to retake it from the norht. I now believe that perspective is correct and the reading of Adelman's book " The Myth of LRT" confirms it for me.. I now believe the imortance of LRT has been formulated ove the years for self serving reasons
Ed
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| Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 05:46 pm |
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4th Post |
Rebel Yell
Belle,Bourbon,Battlefields
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Well said, Bama. While not negating the valiant defense of LRT by Strong Vincents' brigade, I have always felt that the fight for Culps Hill was far more critical to the final union victory (and is far too often overlooked).
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| Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 07:16 pm |
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Bama46
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It was and is..
with Culps hill, the confederates could shut down the Baltimore Pike, the only evacuation route of the AoP. Meade said that the loss of Culps hill would mean an immediate federal withdrawal from the field
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| Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 10:41 pm |
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6th Post |
Doc C
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Bama
Agree with the above. LRT, even though an intergral part of GB, imho, highly over rated. I believe Chamberlain had a great deal to do with it's later elevation. East Cemetery and Culp's Hill were much more important than LRT in the whole scheme of things. By the way who was your guide. This same discussion concerning the relevance or lack thereof of LRT always gets 'em going everytime I visit.
Doc C
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| Posted: Sun Jun 8th, 2008 11:09 pm |
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Bama46
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Doc
Thanks for the "expert" take on my views...given to me by our guide. His first name is John, I did not understand his last name due to my hearing loss. He is a very nice fellow, slight of build with a gray beard. He is a retired plastic surgeon.
I think lots of folks have blown up the importance of LRT over the years and Adelman does a good job of setting the record straight in his book "The Myth of Little Round Top"
Ed
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| Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 07:51 am |
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8th Post |
Dixie Girl
Southern Belle
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sounds like you had a great time.....im plannen on gettin up there one of these days. i think my folks are fixin to plan a trip up yonder but when we go we're gonna hit the Amish country and Hershey and i think the pretzel place. i wanna hit it all in one trip so they will take me to Vicksburg or Shiloh or somewhere else on another vacation
____________________
War Means Fighting And Fighting Means Killing - N. B. Forrest
When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Stonewall Jackson
Sic Semper Tyrannis - John Wilkes Booth
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| Posted: Mon Jun 9th, 2008 06:55 pm |
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9th Post |
Tom Wiehle
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Bama46, I envy your trip to Gettysburg, looks like you had John Krohn for your guide. A very interesting man, he was originaly from MN not far from where I live. Met him at a seminar about a dozen years ago or so and really enjoyed his company. At that time he was studying for the guide test. He had 3 Gr. Uncles in the war, one a Union doctor if I recall and two in Kershaws Brigade.
Tried to hook up with him my last visit to Gettysburg but it was late in the year and he had gone home to NC. Hope to see him again if I get back to visit, and like I say, wish I had been with you!
Tom
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Bama46
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Tom,
I believe you are right..the NC reference sort of rings a bell with me.. I am so dam*ed deaf that proper nouns are almost always beyond my comprehension unless I can see the name spelled out somewhere. He was quite knowledgable, yet quick to admit that his knowledge was somewhat rusty around the East Calvary Field as so few visitors request that as a stop. He went on to say that the vast majority of the visitors' knowledge of the battle comes from The Killer Angels, or Gettysburg...same thing... and anyone who has read the book will realize that it focuses almost exclusively on LRT and Picketts charge, but more on LRT. As a result, most guides will take visitors to the areas they are familiar with and skip the more obscure areas even tho they may have played a more important role in the battle..i.e. culps Hill.
At any rate, we had a wonderful time at Gettysburg and also at Antietam, altho I still can get powerful confused at Antietam....and in a big hurry too!
Gettysburg, Shiloh, and many of the other battlefields I have visited offer a "mind's eye view" that lets you get an overall picture of events taking place so that you can focus on smaller areas, then put the smaller areas together into a larger picture. Antietam does not do that, at least not for me yet. I don't know why, but I have to hold a troop position map in my hands almost the entire time I am on the field or i am completely twisted around.
EdLast edited on Mon Jun 9th, 2008 08:32 pm by
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 12:32 am |
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11th Post |
Johnny Huma
Johnny Huma
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Bama,
I love the Burg but since visiting since 1991 I have learned alot about what the guides will tell you and sometimes what really happened. It seems you had a good one and if you ask questions and they know you have some kind of smarts about the battle they will indeed tell you more of the truth of the story as to the basic 2 hr tour. In fact LRT was not that important at all and although I have seen on video and written in books how important it was to the battle it really had little effect. Lee himself knew that and that is why he ordered the attack up the Emittsburg Road..Hoods men because of the tangled mess of the landscape ended up there and not by choice. That was the reason for Hoods protest of course is that he was orderd to attack up the Emmittsburg road in front of the round tops...There are more facts as such all around the field if you want to read about it...
Huma
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 02:24 am |
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Bama46
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JH
I think the operative phrase is "if you ask questions"
If you do, the guide will respond in kind...if you don't, he/she will give you the basic 2 dollah weddin. My group has been questioning everything and everyone since we were college freshmen 44 years ago. the group contained a retired psychologist/counselor; a trade group executive, a business owner, an attorney, a physician, an insurance executive and a retired VA executive. We ain't bashful!...and we had done some preparatory reading prior to making the trip..
I think if you are going to go to the expense of taking a long trip like that...we were gone a week and traveled 1750 miles, then you have to get the most out of it you can and that involves preperation and a willingness to listen to theories you don't already hold.. The last thing I expected to learn was that LRT was unimportant, yet, it is the truth of the matter.
Ed
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 02:28 am |
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13th Post |
Bama46
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A few thoughts on the visitors center..
The entry fowyer looks immense, yet on Monday there were eleventy seven gazillion kids there. I know cause I counted them and that is an accurate number! The foyer was almost too small!
I did not care for the placement of the exibits as once you get into the area where they are located, you are trapped! It is almost impossible to find your way out, especially with that many people going thru the various stages. The exibits I found confusing as many artifacts seemed grouped rather strangely. I guess I am an old fuddy duddy, but I like to see gun rooms, uniform rooms, etc, etc and lots of EXIT signs that actually take you to the exit.
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 03:24 am |
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14th Post |
susansweet
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Ed, how did you get them to stand still long enough to count them? As a retired school teacher I find myself in sites with school tours and tend to want to start organizing them so they behave . Drives me crazy when kids run amok.
I want to go to Gettysburg again sooooo bad.
Susan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 03:32 am |
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15th Post |
Dixie Girl
Southern Belle
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join the club Susan........i wanna go to Gettysburg real bad too
____________________
War Means Fighting And Fighting Means Killing - N. B. Forrest
When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Stonewall Jackson
Sic Semper Tyrannis - John Wilkes Booth
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 03:37 am |
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16th Post |
susansweet
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I have been to Gettysburg twice but just want to go again. I want to see the new visitors center and how the tree removal has changed the views.
Susan
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 02:38 pm |
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17th Post |
Bama46
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You use the running method whereyb kids with certain colored shirts are multiplied times the square of their loudness then multiplied again by the mph of their running. I thought all teachers knew that....
The tree removal is doing wonders for the vistas. There is nothing quite like seeing a battery of cannon trained on a dense woods 20 yds in front of it to get a real appreciation of the action.... unfortunately, that is the situation at Vicksburg and no one knows what to do about it
Ed
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 02:49 pm |
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 03:11 pm |
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Bama46
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Yes, it really was. It was one of the better ones we have taken, partly because we had two friends (brothers) who had been ill the past couple of years and could not go..they went even tho they tired quickly and needed to return to the motel for rest and had to leave mid week.
Ed
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| Posted: Tue Jun 10th, 2008 03:40 pm |
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20th Post |
Johnny Huma
Johnny Huma
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Bama,
Have to agree with youthere...I also felt that the exibits were confusing and the quarters are tight. I thought that the laying out of the Visiters Center may have been done a bit better..There are displays set up before you go into the Museam that take a lot of room up for such a small display and that room could have been used to expand the room in the exibit area. I was a bit dissapointed in the film they showed I think it was called "A new birth of freedom" that I paid 8 bucks to see. Informative to the non history buff but for someone who studys this period it really was a waste of money..The sound and projection are first class as is the seating so there was some plus to the endeaver. I like to looks of the outside of the building and think it does blend well with the landscape..The gift shop is a bit pricey but I guess they have to make some money somewhere..The airport style lines to get to the desk are a little unwelcome and seems to add an odd touch to the overall setup. The food in the cafeteria was nothing to write home to Mom about other than it also was a bit costly.
But all in all it is an improvement over the old visiters center that lies where Zieglers Grove was and I am told that once the Old center is down the Grove is to be replanted there...And thats a whole other story for Picketts charge that can be studied on. Hence I am convinced that the attacks were to end up there at the Grove
and not the Angle..A little study into the attack will convince the non believer since the Copse of trees at the time of the battle were only about 12 feet high and breaking the line there had no advantage..But the Grove had many advantages to assult Cemetery Hill...Well I could go on and on but thats not what this post is about...
Hope you all get to go there this summer it is my favorite field and I love the place..Would live there if it wasnt for the wife...
Huma
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