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| Posted: Tue Jan 6th, 2009 11:34 pm |
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1st Post |
pamc153PA
Member
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Who, in your opinion, were the most profane men, of any level, in the Civil War? And, on the flip side, who were the most "saintly," or religious (besides Stonewall, the obvious!)?
Although we usually ask for specifics here, you might want to be, er, judicious with examples of the profanity!! 
Pam
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 12:30 am |
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2nd Post |
Dixie Girl
Southern Belle
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dern i was gonna say Stonewall......Robert E. Lee as most saintly and William T. Sherman as most profane
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War Means Fighting And Fighting Means Killing - N. B. Forrest
When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Stonewall Jackson
Sic Semper Tyrannis - John Wilkes Booth
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 12:59 am |
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3rd Post |
ole
Member
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Actually, there were likely more judicious men than profane. When a man was pretty good at profanity, it was usually noted.
I've never read an account of the big guys using profanity, although the annals do recount some who could curse the ears off a mule. But they were considerably lesser in rank and tended to be in Division and Brigade command.
In fact, I can think of only one time when Grant lost his temper and that was when he caught a teamster abusing his animals. I don't recall a time when Lee lost it, or Sherman, or Longstreet, or Jackson, or Thomas. Now Sheridan was a fractious person, but it seems that public cursing was not in vogue. "You, sir, are a damned fool!" was simply not said.
Much has been said about Forrest's plain-speaking, but little evidence exists that he actually said those things. You might be sure that, in the field, some candid phrases were exchanged, but that sort of thing was not recorded. It might be said that the commander responded in "strong language," but that's about as far as it went.
So much so that when a commander was given to profanity, it was noted. Like, he was different. It's not like none of them ever uttered a profane curse, but they seem to be not recorded.
Bottom line: they were not all that much different emotionally than we are, so most of them most certainly said the equivalent of manure more than once. It just simply was not recorded.
Ole
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 01:45 am |
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4th Post |
susansweet3
Member
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There is the story of Forrest and Cheatham turning the air blue over who was going to cross the ford first . Cheatham was well know for his profanity. There is also the story of Polk following behind Cheatham when he is telling the men to give them hell. Polk the Episcopal Bishop is saying Do what he says behind Cheatham.
I agree Ole both North and South the leading Generals were not known for be profane . They were careful of their language.
Some were know for being pretty fast with the ladies , Hooker and VanDorn are two .
Interesting question Pam.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 01:47 am |
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5th Post |
susansweet3
Member
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Dixie Lee good , Sherman bad . hmm very stereotypical one demisional portrait of the two men. Neither was perfect or all bad. Both were men with faults . Both were doing their job. Both were good at their job. After reading Sherman's Memiors I have a better picture of who he was .
Susan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 02:06 am |
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6th Post |
Dixie Girl
Southern Belle
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susansweet3 wrote: Dixie Lee good , Sherman bad . hmm very stereotypical one demisional portrait of the two men. Neither was perfect or all bad. Both were men with faults . Both were doing their job. Both were good at their job. After reading Sherman's Memiors I have a better picture of who he was .
Susan
very well said Miss Susan. as you said, i think i do have a one dimensional view of the two men. i was raised as you said, Lee good, Sherman bad. ive never read Shermans memoirs but i think if i did i MIGHT look at him differently. not a fan of Sherman but id be willing to give it a read
____________________
War Means Fighting And Fighting Means Killing - N. B. Forrest
When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Stonewall Jackson
Sic Semper Tyrannis - John Wilkes Booth
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 03:06 pm |
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7th Post |
64thNYDrummer
Member
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I have seen Hancock described as giftedly profane, O.O. Howard was probably as religious as Stonewall.
Dennis
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 03:22 pm |
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8th Post |
Johan Steele
Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352
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Rosecrans was both very religious and on occccasion known to be quite profane; both Sickles and Butler as well as Sheriden had profane strreaks.
On the CS side Wheeler had a bit of a profane streak; apparently caused a prob between him & Wade Hampton. It was a bit more common than we might think.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 7th, 2009 03:53 pm |
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9th Post |
ole
Member
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very well said Miss Susan. as you said, i think i do have a one dimensional view of the two men. i was raised as you said, Lee good, Sherman bad. ive never read Shermans memoirs but i think if i did i MIGHT look at him differently. not a fan of Sherman but id be willing to give it a read
Very well received, Miss Dixie Girl. There are four sides to every story. You have to find the one that makes sense.
Home schooled? Hmmmmm. Give your mom my sincerest regards. When mine were your age, I would have cheerfully killed them. She deserves sainthood.
Even better than his memoires is "Sherman's Civil War." It's a BIG book with much of what he said and wrote while he was developing as a prime commander. In those letters, you get to watch him as he grows into his job.
A recommended read.
Ole
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Dixie Girl
Southern Belle
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ole wrote: very well said Miss Susan. as you said, i think i do have a one dimensional view of the two men. i was raised as you said, Lee good, Sherman bad. ive never read Shermans memoirs but i think if i did i MIGHT look at him differently. not a fan of Sherman but id be willing to give it a read
Very well received, Miss Dixie Girl. There are four sides to every story. You have to find the one that makes sense.
Home schooled? Hmmmmm. Give your mom my sincerest regards. When mine were your age, I would have cheerfully killed them. She deserves sainthood.
Even better than his memoires is "Sherman's Civil War." It's a BIG book with much of what he said and wrote while he was developing as a prime commander. In those letters, you get to watch him as he grows into his job.
A recommended read.
Ole
thank you very much Ole. i said one of my New Years resolutions was to argue less and learn more, and i figured the best place to start was with Miss Susan, as i seem to be able to try to argue with her over anything, but i realized that she is older than me and knows a lot more than i give her credit for and its high time i just shut up and listened to what she has to say.
yes home schooled, it was her idea not mine. she also home schools my brother and cousin. i must say im not the problem child in school though. my cousin who is my age and my 10 year old brother act like two year olds and complain when it comes time to do their work, whereas i go ahead and do it and am several days ahead in my book and they never catch up.
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War Means Fighting And Fighting Means Killing - N. B. Forrest
When war does come, my advice is to draw the sword and throw away the scabbard." Stonewall Jackson
Sic Semper Tyrannis - John Wilkes Booth
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Devils Den
Member
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Father Corbi! Very nice reply-the man was also the president of Notre Dame and gave them the name "Fighting Irish" if I am not mistaken.
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21st, 2009 11:28 am |
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15th Post |
Kentucky_Orphan
Member
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A very interesting topic!
It has always been amusing to me that many generally refer to sotherners as being somehow more virtuous and pious than their northern counterparts. Even those who generally attempt to demean southerners and exhalt northerners who fought in the war tend to uphold this view-albeit they use words like archaic and rigid when refering to the southern virtues. None other than Porter Alaexander passes down to us his own beliefs when he talks about being "disturbed" by the idea that many southern commanders held in an "invisible being" that determined the outcome of battles.
Regardless of the propensity for virtue on either side, there can be found on both sides men who can be identified as saintly and/or profane. Two of the most profane can be found on the southern side. Nathan Bedford Forrest was profane-indeed, many of his contempararies were appalled at his behavior-though none seemingly had the courage to challenge him in this matter.
Jubal Early is the other that comes to mind. An example for his peerless profanity comes from none other than General Longstreet. At a reunion at west point, years after the civil war, Joe Wheeler approached some confederate veterans, including Pete Longstreet. Upon seeing Wheeler in a blue uniform, Longstreet pronounced "Joe, I hope Almighty God takes me before he does you, for I want to be within the gates of hell to hear Jubal Early cuss you in the blue uniform".
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| Posted: Wed Jan 21st, 2009 04:19 pm |
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16th Post |
The Iron Duke
Member
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That's a very interesting quote by Alexander. Thanks for sharing.
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"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill
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| Posted: Fri Feb 20th, 2009 02:16 am |
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17th Post |
CleburneFan
Member
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General William Nelson Pendleton, Lee's chief of artillery, was an Episcopal priest. It is said he led his men with a swodd in one hand and a Bible in the other. Rumors also have him praying for the Yankees his men were about to shoot in battle. Last edited on Fri Feb 20th, 2009 02:17 am by CleburneFan
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| Posted: Sat Feb 21st, 2009 12:54 am |
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18th Post |
The Iron Duke
Member
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What about Sheridan?
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"Cleburne is here!" meant that all was well. -Daniel Harvey Hill
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