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A.P. HILLS LIGHT DIVISION - Other People of the Civil War - The Participants of the War - Mikitary & Civilian - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
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 Posted: Sun Aug 14th, 2011 10:02 pm
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Mark
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Old Blu, I got to disagree, not with your assessment of Jackson's performance during the battle, but with your suggestion that Old Jack never had another independent command: 2nd Manassas, and Harpers Ferry (just before Antietam) immediately come to mind.

Mark



 Posted: Mon Aug 15th, 2011 12:08 am
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Old Blu
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Mark wrote: Old Blu, I got to disagree, not with your assessment of Jackson's performance during the battle, but with your suggestion that Old Jack never had another independent command: 2nd Manassas, and Harpers Ferry (just before Antietam) immediately come to mind.

Mark


I read it in Robertson's book about A.P. Hill.



 Posted: Mon Aug 15th, 2011 12:14 am
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Old Blu
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Mark, I told you wrong.  It is on this sign at the battlefield. Sorry about that.





Last edited on Mon Aug 15th, 2011 12:14 am by Old Blu



 Posted: Mon Aug 15th, 2011 11:03 am
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Mark wrote: Old Blu, I got to disagree, not with your assessment of Jackson's performance during the battle, but with your suggestion that Old Jack never had another independent command: 2nd Manassas, and Harpers Ferry (just before Antietam) immediately come to mind.

Mark


I think what is meant here, Jackson started this battle on his own and could have been in a great deal of trouble caused by himself.  The places you mention were orders from Lee that he helped carry out his plans. That is just the way I see it.



 Posted: Mon Aug 15th, 2011 12:27 pm
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Yeah, I see what you mean... defining "independent command" is a bit spotty. Thanks for the clarification.

Mark



 Posted: Mon Aug 15th, 2011 04:43 pm
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Pender, the CWPT map has a good listing of the units involved.  It is pretty easy to see how the whole battle developed with this map.

http://www.civilwar.org/battlefields/cedarmountain/maps/cedar-mountain-map.html



 Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2011 12:45 am
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Old Blu thank's for the map. I like it when all the confederate and union regiment's are showed, helps about understanding the battle and what they done. Since you seem to be near the Cedar Mountain battle field do you know much about Pender's flank attack that I described earlier in a post? In Krick's book on page 275 he writes"The North Carolinians charged literally into the midst of the 27th(Indiana), according to that unit's regimental history, and, at the point of the bayonet, demanded their surrender. The same source remembered confederates demanding capitulation with fierce oaths and imprecations followed by gunfire delivered at such short range against those still resisting that some federals suffered powder burned faces." Also General Gordon of the union army described Pender's volleys with vividly hot imagery:"a terrible...dreadful and remorseless fire, that came like a whirlwind, and licked up with its fiery blast more lives than were lost to the 2nd regiment and my brigade in any battle of the war." I have read several books on Cedar Mt. But would like to learn more about Penders flank attack in particular. Just wondering if there is any thing about Penders flank attack at the battle field or if you have any info on it? Thank's

Pender



 Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2011 01:40 am
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Pender says-

Old Blu thank's for the map. I like it when all the confederate and union regiment's are showed, helps about understanding the battle and what they done. Since you seem to be near the Cedar Mountain battle field do you know much about Pender's flank attack that I described earlier in a post?

Absolutely nothing about that. I got Krick's book at Chancellorsville yesterday. I have been pretty busy trying to locate where my G-Grand was and just haven't looked around too much. I have nothing on the charge YET!

http://www.brotherswar.com/2nd_Manassas-13.htm

Last edited on Thu Aug 18th, 2011 01:54 am by Old Blu



 Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2011 11:22 am
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pender wrote: Old Blu thank's for the map. I like it when all the confederate and union regiment's are showed, helps about understanding the battle and what they done. Since you seem to be near the Cedar Mountain battle field do you know much about Pender's flank attack that I described earlier in a post? In Krick's book on page 275 he writes"The North Carolinians charged literally into the midst of the 27th(Indiana), according to that unit's regimental history, and, at the point of the bayonet, demanded their surrender. The same source remembered confederates demanding capitulation with fierce oaths and imprecations followed by gunfire delivered at such short range against those still resisting that some federals suffered powder burned faces." Also General Gordon of the union army described Pender's volleys with vividly hot imagery:"a terrible...dreadful and remorseless fire, that came like a whirlwind, and licked up with its fiery blast more lives than were lost to the 2nd regiment and my brigade in any battle of the war." I have read several books on Cedar Mt. But would like to learn more about Penders flank attack in particular. Just wondering if there is any thing about Penders flank attack at the battle field or if you have any info on it? Thank's

Pender


Pender, I looked at page 275 you recommended and that is the only place I have seen that particular action.  Sad.  I will have to study on that a little more as I read along.  I really like the book because I wondered how Krick found enough stuff to write about based on the size of the book.:)  Anyway, it is good discriptive reading and not biased at all. 



 Posted: Thu Aug 18th, 2011 12:52 pm
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Old Blu, I agree Krick's book is very enjoyable. Just wondering Old Blu did you look up the reference in the back of the book to the 52nd Virginia. If not they are on pages, 18, 49, 51, 117, 133, 197, 362, 368.

Pender



 Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2011 03:24 am
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I have always liked this painting of A.P.Hill's command rushing to Sharpsburg!

By: Dale Gallon




 Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2011 02:03 pm
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Sgtredleg, I like anything associated with the Light Division. I was looking up some books associated with Light Division and run across a book you may like. I have never read it but am going to put it on my list. The name of the book is Redclay to Richmond: Trail of the 35th Georgia Infantry Regiment. The books author is John J. Fox. If you have read it give me some input.

 Pender



 Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2011 06:37 pm
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Yes, I've had the book for a couple of years now, I consider it to be excellent! :DOn page 82 is a picture of my ancestor Captain William Jefferson Head, (He Looks just like my brother ). It's the only picture I have ever seen of him.

I think it's about time to read this book again!

 



 Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2011 07:00 pm
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sgtredleg... that must have been when they are just starting out... not enough stragglers yet! I remember reading somewhere that about 1/3 of the division fell out during that march. It really says something about the caliber of men in the ranks that 2/3 actually made it an still had the ability to fight!

Mark



 Posted: Fri Aug 19th, 2011 08:23 pm
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Gentlemen, Since I brought up Georgia. I would like to ask a question? As all know when A.P.Hill was promoted at the death of Stonewall Jackson, William D. Pender was to receive Hills old post as division commander of the Light Division. But at Gettysburg Pender received a mortal wound. He died shortly there after, Cadmus M. Wilcox got command of the Light Division. Now nothing against Wilcox I personally like him. But in IMO I think Edward L. Thomas should have received command of the Light Division. He had been with the Light Division since he replaced Joseph R. Anderson. Anderson had returned to Richmond to run the Tredegar Iorn Works. Thomas remained with the Light Division till Appomattox as the Brigade commander of the Georgia brigade of the Light Division. Some feel as if Thomas did not receive the Light Division command due to the fact that there was two N.C. brigade's. Wilcox was born in N.C. but moved to Tennessee when he was two. I think it was a mistake not putting Thomas as the Light Division's commander. Who do you all think should have been given the Light Division after Pender's death.

Pender  



 Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2011 12:41 pm
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I been trying to get some pictures up about the Battlefield.  I am right where Hill is about to arrive.  The Union Army has rolled up the Confederates all the way down to Early.  Looks like the 52nd is standing firm. Course the Union guys are just about finished.

I will put some up when I learn what happened to lock me up so I can't.

Later

Blu.



 Posted: Mon Aug 22nd, 2011 12:46 pm
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Mark wrote: sgtredleg... that must have been when they are just starting out... not enough stragglers yet! I remember reading somewhere that about 1/3 of the division fell out during that march. It really says something about the caliber of men in the ranks that 2/3 actually made it an still had the ability to fight!

Mark


Are you sure General Lee didn't make that statement about losing 1/3 of his army?



 Posted: Tue Aug 23rd, 2011 01:24 am
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I think Lee did say something like that in regards to the ANV, however, my estimate was based on Hill's report that he had 3,300 men in action at Harpers Ferry, and then his report that he had just under 2,000 that went into action at Antietam. Both numbers from the OR.

Mark



 Posted: Tue Aug 23rd, 2011 02:30 am
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Mark wrote: I think Lee did say something like that in regards to the ANV, however, my estimate was based on Hill's report that he had 3,300 men in action at Harpers Ferry, and then his report that he had just under 2,000 that went into action at Antietam. Both numbers from the OR.

Mark


Also there were a big number of the Virginia boys wouldn't march into Antietam.  I think that is where General Lee made the remark he lost 1/3 of his army.



 Posted: Sun Aug 28th, 2011 02:11 pm
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A very good look in the light division is found in the book by Martin Schenck, Up came Hill. On page 130 there is an interesting account of a conversation between A.P. Hill, Maxcy Gregg and William D. Pender, it goes like this. General Pender," Hill would say, "this is good tobacco, Virginia tobacco." You are right, General, Dorsey would reply, "this is good tobacco, but perhaps it comes from the fields of Carolina, where the best is grown." "South Carolina, down around Columbia," Gregg would interject in his deep drawl. If you all are like me you just love finding little things like this it puts a human face on the rough combat soldiers and gives you a look in to their character.  

On a sad note all three of these men would lose their life during the war.

Pender 

Last edited on Sun Aug 28th, 2011 02:16 pm by pender



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