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 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 01:33 pm
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Roger
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Hi folks, I'm back again from my month away working at sea.


Here's my first question of this leave. Below is attached a photo from the manufacturers website of a 54mm kit described as an US Corporal 2nd Manassas 1862.


I received this as a birthday present but what is bothering me is the two cartridge pouches on the waist belt. I haven't seen any documentary evidence of this myself but would like to know if this is an accurate depiction. A slip of paper included with the kit mentions the 41st New York.


Your thoughts please.


Roger 




 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 02:29 pm
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David White
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Hey Roger, welcome back glad you didn't see Davy Jones' locker.

You know the thing that bothers me more than the two cartridege boxes are his cavalry boots versus brogans when he is obviously an infantryman. 

I could see a need for two cartridge boxes when extra rounds were added but most accounts I recall seem to indicate the men stuffed them in their pockets and haversacks.  I doubt soldiers would wear both in front as depicted because where would you have your cap pouch?  If I were to wear two I'd put one on my right hip per usual practice and one on my left front and try to move it to my right hip when I emptied out the on on my hip.



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 02:41 pm
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Roger
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Hi David, it's good to be back. As for Davy Jone's locker the weather wasn't too good... storm force 11 November 8th!!

I need to check my Echoes of Glory book for the Union Army but I think the boots are accurate. I agree with what you say about the pouches and I think it could provoke some interesting discussion. I would like someone to confirm it's accuracy just to paint something controversial lol.

Roger

Last edited on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 02:41 pm by Roger



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 03:13 pm
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susansweet
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Roger, welcome back.  Just last night I realized you had not posted in a while.  I was missing the little figures you post .  they are so wonderful.   Glad you survived the not so good weather at sea. 

I don't have any sources to quote but like Dave said and you have mentioned the two cartridge pouches somehow don't look right.    Hopefully Johann will see this soon as I would bet he will know one way or the other. 

Again welcome back.  Keep posting those pictures .  I love to see them.

Susan



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 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 04:14 pm
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Roger
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Susan, Ed, thank you for the welcome back, it's much appreciated.

Susan, hopefully Johan will see this soon. I'm sure he'll be able to help out.

I've done a lot of Civil War related reading while I've been away and I've got a heap of questions so watch out:D

Roger  



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 05:14 pm
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Johan Steele
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2 cartridge boxes scream wrong to me but that said early war had some pretty odd things going on. That said the cart boxes weigh in at 8 lbs per so 16 lbs on the belt might get a little interesting.  The Cav boots actually don't seem out of place for early war either as footwear was at a premium and issues were once again inconsistant. The jacket looks right for a NY State jacket but I don't know off hand.

Good to see you back...

Last edited on Fri Nov 16th, 2007 05:17 pm by Johan Steele



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 05:37 pm
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Roger
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Thank you for looking Johan, I was hoping you would cast an eye over this.

It's an interesting little figure and I would love to find evidence of the pouches been worn like this during the Civil War. Having worn pouches like this myself without supporting straps I know it's very awakward and uncomfortable.

Roger



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 05:46 pm
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Roger
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Take a look here, http://712educators.about.com/blcwphmilsold6.htm

I saved a copy and enlarged it and I think some of the men are wearing two pouches, what do you think?



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 08:10 pm
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Johan Steele
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i can't get enough detail when I enlarge it to tell. As I said though some of the early volunteer regiments did some pretty odd stuff.

As to wearing the cart belt on the belt I'm not a big fan of it UNLESS I'm carrying a sword bayonet, then it balances the weight out across my body better.

I know several gents who prefer the box on belt method and I know for a time that was both the French Army method & US Regular Inf method. It does allow a little easier loading IMHO but the downside is a grazing round in that cart box can lead to some interesting fireworks in some interesting places.

The one thing is where is his cap pouch?

For me, and I lack the skill of our esteemed English artiste ;) I'm just the resident smart alleck, I like the fig itself. I can't see the weapon or bayonet real well in my photo but I can see all kinds of opportunities for scratch build w/ that bad boy, even into a CS soldier.



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 08:30 pm
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Roger
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The cap pouch is there but further around the belt.
I don't know why I didn't look earlier but..... page 46 Troiani's Regiments & Uniforms of the Civil War... 41st New York, two cartridge pouches.
I wonder if this of wearing the pouches was adopted because the regiment was recruited from Germans and this looks typically German?



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 08:37 pm
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susansweet
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Roger and Johan  I enlarged the picture some and the guy right in the middle in the back row, to the left seems to have two pouches.    Yeah right resident smart aleck.  More like resident expert on the common soldier and what  his equipment was. 

As i said before Roger I love seeing your soldiers.  Thanks for sharing them. 

Susan



 Posted: Fri Nov 16th, 2007 11:22 pm
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ole
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There are always exceptions to the rule, Roger. Chances are the 41st did wear two cartridge boxes on the belt. I'll suspect that the practice didn't last long, and your corporal took the government issue brogans soon enough. Meanwhile, you've adequately established that your figure is an accurate representation--at least for a while.

ole



 Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 12:15 am
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Johan Steele
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Roger wrote: The cap pouch is there but further around the belt.
I don't know why I didn't look earlier but..... page 46 Troiani's Regiments & Uniforms of the Civil War... 41st New York, two cartridge pouches.
I wonder if this of wearing the pouches was adopted because the regiment was recruited from Germans and this looks typically German?


If it's Troiani it's gospel in my book.  I'm kicking myself as well for not looking.  Mere proof I am anything but an expert... over enthusiatic amatuer enthusiast w/ delusions might be more apt.  ;)  Thanks for the compliment Susan after this weeks flu romping through the house and the conga line of my family into the hospital I can use every bit of cheering up.



 Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 02:15 am
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susansweet
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Johan I hope your wife and daughter are well. Hospital doesn't sound good. Sending the get well wishes east to all of you .
Susan



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 Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 04:59 am
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Roger
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Sorry to hear about the flu Johan, I hope everyones is ok now.

Susan I'm glad you like seeing the figures, this one is only in the research phase at the moment, which I find is as much as enjoyable as the painting. Next comes construction and then the application of paint. I have a WW1 Canadian lined up next so I'm not sure when I'll be making a start on this one.

Ole, the 41st originally wore a green Jager style uniform so as you can see by the time of 2nd Manassas/Bull Run (What do us English people call it?:P) he was well on the way to being dressed more conventionally. I expect it wouldn't be long before the boots were replaced.

As for Smart Allec's, if that means enthusiasm for your subject and a willingness to help other I'm all for 'em:D Keep it up.

Roger 



 Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 02:02 pm
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Johan Steele
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Wife & daughter are chipper, up & moving around... me I still want the number on that bus that run me over.

Don't count out those boots... footwear was footwear and shoes were never in as plentiful supply as some might have us think.



 Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 02:18 pm
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Roger
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Johan Steele wrote: Wife & daughter are chipper, up & moving around... me I still want the number on that bus that run me over.

Don't count out those boots... footwear was footwear and shoes were never in as plentiful supply as some might have us think.


Glad to hear your wife and daughter are better, I'll keep an eye out for that bus.

Roger



 Posted: Sat Nov 17th, 2007 02:29 pm
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ole
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me I still want the number on that bus that run me over.

So you didn't get the number? Phew! I was worried there for a second or two.:shock:

ole



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