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Saga of the Battle of Palmetto Diorama - Other Civil War Talk - Civil War Talk - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
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 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 02:10 am
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CleburneFan
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This story made Kurt Oberman's MSNBC show tonight. He named the authority on the Battle of Palmetto Ranch, his "Worst Person in the World" an honor he often awards to Bill O'Reilly. The story also appears on Javal's CWi main page in more detail that I have linked below.

Anyway, a group of students and their instructor spent three years creating a diorama of the Battle of Plametto Ranch based on the book written by the man is known as the top authority on the battle.

The diorama was to be displayed at a msueum headed by this same writer and historian. He found inaccuracies in the diorama, so he damaged it by brushing all the hand-painted figurines off the scenario. 

I wonder what lesson these students have learned from this exercise.

http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/0214gr-diorama0214-ON.html

Last edited on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 02:12 am by CleburneFan



 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 02:20 am
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Rebel Yell
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Man, what a jerk!!! Those kids and their teacher spent time and money creating something instead of wasting time on vidoe games and this is what they get for their efforts?!?!?? I think this guy is an authority on being an (expletive deleted).



 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 02:50 am
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David White
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I'll be seeing his boss, General Rodriguez, in a couple of weeks and I intend to ask him what's up. Camp Mabry is just down the road from me and it is where I attend drill for my reserve duty. It really is a nice little museum.



 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 12:43 pm
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Johan Steele
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Total Jerk Wad! At the very least the SOB should reimburse the students & school for the money they spent creating such a work. Such an action by a patron of the museum would have gotten them in a whole lot of trouble.

I've built diorama's for museums (one destroyed in shipping so I understand the students anger). A diorama isn't quick to do, it isn't cheap or easy and for a museum the research had best be superb. I've heard the man was a total prick other places on the CW web; but I thought he had some decency and appreciation. I geuss this proves the man is a total...

From the article it sounds like Col Savoy has things in hand, or at least in his crosshairs.



 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 05:23 pm
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Fuller
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Great role model for young minds.  Instead of pointing out what he (he, being the great master omnipotent one) thought was wrong, he brought in Godzilla to tear up the scene?!  The ego is a terribly annoying thing.

I will be interested to hear what they have to say when you get back David.



 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 09:49 pm
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javal1
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Found this photo, taken by a long-time vol. for the museum, on a Yahoo group.



 Posted: Sat Feb 16th, 2008 10:52 pm
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CleburneFan
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You know what? I would have liked to read Hunt's book on Palmetto Ranch being as it is reputed to be the most authoritative on the battle, but now I may never read it just because of my disgust with this grown man's Civil War Diva behavior.#%$#

Last edited on Sat Feb 16th, 2008 10:53 pm by CleburneFan



 Posted: Sat Feb 23rd, 2008 04:33 am
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willb
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David White wrote: I'll be seeing his boss, General Rodriguez, in a couple of weeks and I intend to ask him what's up. Camp Mabry is just down the road from me and it is where I attend drill for my reserve duty. It really is a nice little museum.
make sure you ask him why he has taken no action to remove hunt.  hunt admitted that he took it apart.  when this hit the internet and news he tried to cover it up and put a favorable spin on it by saying it was carefully taken apart and that the figures were being preserved to rebuild a smaller diorama.  there are pictures on various sites showing the condition of the figures with arms, heads and other parts broken off.  the procedure he tried to show would have been done immediately as each piece was carefully removed.  other forums have also noted that he has had problems with other re-enactment groups and the re-enactment group he is in charge of may have received special favors from the museums he has been in charge of.  what he did to the diorama would definitely be an act of vandalism if done by a visitor to the museum.  also, he is an employee of the museum and not the owner.  as such most companies would fire an employee for deliberately damaging company property.  he also intends to alter other dioramas that he considers inaccurate.  i doubt that there is any diorama or painting of a military action that is 100 percent accurate.  if he were curator or director of a museum that had any of the paintings that show alexander the great or others from antiquity in medieval armor or costumes from 1000 uears later in history would he insist that they be changed also?



 Posted: Mon Feb 25th, 2008 05:40 pm
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David White
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Yes, this story keeps getting uglier IMO. I've done some more checking and Hunt came from the Nimitz Museum and I am told his departure there was under a cloud. He did make an attempt to explain himself a little but that doesn't explain why he didn't talk to the teacher and why about half of the figures were broken off at the base. I understand Rodriguez isn't happy about the negative publicity but is standing by his man. Whether behind closec doors he is telling him not to embarrass him again or he just doesn't care becasue he has bigger fish to fry than the museum, is uncertain to me at this time.



 Posted: Mon Mar 3rd, 2008 02:24 am
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Crazy Delawares
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As far as Mr. Hunt...that's been adequately covered.
As for the teacher and students, I can imagine their pain. I, too, am a teacher. To have someone disrespect your work in such a heinous manner tears at the heart of every individual who put time and passion into it.
I wonder what Mr. Hunt would have done if someone had done something similar to his precious project? I wonder if soemone had sent his first manuscript back to him torn to shreds if he would've been angry.



 Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 09:22 pm
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ashbel
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The story continues.

The Texas Civil War Museum in Fort Worth has offered to pay for the restoration and "correction" of the Diorama and will display it in their museum.  The folks at Camp Mabry are "considering their offer."  It is nice to know someone is stepping up to right this wrong.



 Posted: Mon May 12th, 2008 11:50 pm
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CleburneFan
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I'm really glad a group has stepped up in an effort to remedy the affront that was perpetrated on those students and their teacher.  



 Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 12:54 am
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ole
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Yes! It is indeed good news. I will forthwith spread the word to another board whose outrage has matched ours. They will be pleased to note that Texas isn't going to put up with this kind of ****.

It is particularly neat to note that when it comes to our kids, we forget about north and south and manage to fall on the side of the study of history.

ole

Last edited on Tue May 13th, 2008 12:55 am by ole



 Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 01:30 am
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TimK
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Back a couple weeks ago when I joined this discussion group, I mentioned that as I draw CW park maps, I draw to display respect for both sides. What this "gentleman" did to a teacher and his students showed such a disgusting lack of respect, it literally made me sick to my stomach. I can only hope that these students don't associate this man's actions with all history buffs and run as fast as they can to avoid learning and appreciating history.



 Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 03:23 am
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ole
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TimK:

It is not so much the arrogance that he apparently displayed toward the inaccuracies of the diorama, but in the offense of the children who put it together.

I have yet to run across a freakazoid whose first concern isn't what kind of history is being taught to our children -- just that something is being taught. And here we have some kind of history being taught (does it really matter, so long as they get interested?) and it is erased! So the doggone thing is not exactly accurate! These are teeners! Exactly the kind of people we want in these hallowed halls to hash out whatever it is we want to consider as actual history.

Whether the man was right or wrong is not at issue. What is at issue is the killing of a few potential historians. The death of potential.

We all have, on our pedestals, some historians we revere as having all the facts in their possession. And then this one blows the whole thing, arbitrarily. Without, what I've seen, a scholarly explanation. This is not a teacher. Just a boob who's written a book, and is therefore entitled to destroy a generation of fine youngers.

Don't know about you, but I'd be hard pressed to resist a vigilante movement. Nowdays, the vigilates will concern themselves with having a hard censure and a demand for restoration.

Don't want to break a man's rice bowl, but his judgement in this case is brought into some harsh question.

Am pleased to not that Texas is on his case. You pays your money and you takes your chances. And may God have pity on him, for I have none.

ole



 Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 04:02 am
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TimK
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ole-

This makes me think back several years ago when I was first working on the Gettysburg map. Gettysburg, being what and where it is, attracts many school groups from the major metro areas in the vicinity. I was researching monuments with the Chief Ranger and mentioned that I was a little frustrated with all the kids that were climbing all over the guns and said that I wish somebody would teach these kids a little respect for where they were. The historian replied that if just one of the kids starts to wonder about the gun, where it is, what it is aimed at, and why there is a gun there at all - it is worth having a hundred kids climbing on the gun. I would also hope that if some of these kids working on the diorama wondered enough about what they were doing that it caused them to pick up a book and learn a little more, that it is certainly worth not having an entirely factual school project.

But then, it sounds pretty much like I'm preaching to the choir here.

This may not be the place for this, but I was reading somewhere else that people were concerned that the Ken Burns series was not 100% factual. But how many hundreds of thousands of people did that motivate to learn more? I believe that most everything that sparks the electricity in the brain is a good thing - even if it is not perfect.



 Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 04:10 am
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ole
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I believe that most everything that sparks the electricity in the brain is a good thing - even if it is not perfect.
It is in this, and only in this, Tim, that keeps the spark glowing. Double-dog amen, sir.

ole



 Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 01:14 pm
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ashbel
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Tim

I applaud the Park Ranger who had the good sense to look at the bigger picture.  Those field trips just might produce some great historians some day.  Who knows what will light the fire of interest?



 Posted: Tue May 13th, 2008 01:35 pm
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TimK
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I totally agree. I learned about more than monuments that day. Working on a diorama - climbing on a cannon - anything that sparks what you call the fire of interest, it is a good thing.



 Posted: Mon May 26th, 2008 10:11 pm
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galtexian
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Just FYI, the offer by the Texas Civil War Museum has been rejected by group at Camp Mabry.  They just will not admit any wrongdoing.  Actually, the diorama is being dissected and modified to fit Jeff Hunt's "version" of the battle.  Soooo sad.))..



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