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Republican Party or Donner Party? - Idle Chit-Chat - The Lounge - Civil War Interactive Discussion Board
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 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 05:51 pm
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ashbel
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Is the Republican Party really like the Donner Party - "powerless, leaderless and rudderless" and at the risk of extinction?

http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1896588,00.html



 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 05:56 pm
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19bama46
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As the govt will not allow GM or Chrysler to die, so the Republican party will muddle on... why, because the election laws of this country make a 3rd party impossible to be a force in elections. As a result the Republicans will continue to mirror the democrats and generally be meaningless                                                                           



 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 06:15 pm
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ashbel
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And if a 3rd party were possible would it be more moderate directed at the middle and the slightly right of middle or would it be more like the Ron Paul Libertarians?

I grew up as an Everett Dirksen Republican - pragmatic, pro small-business, willing to compromise for the good of the country, and fiscally conservative.  I am not sure there is a place in the Republican Party of today for folks like me.



 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 06:38 pm
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19bama46
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ashbel wrote: And if a 3rd party were possible would it be more moderate directed at the middle and the slightly right of middle or would it be more like the Ron Paul Libertarians?

I grew up as an Everett Dirksen Republican - pragmatic, pro small-business, willing to compromise for the good of the country, and fiscally conservative.  I am not sure there is a place in the Republican Party of today for folks like me.


me either...

I don't know, that, I think, would depend on the people who made up that mythical party. I tend to gravitate towards the liberaterians as they come closer to representing MOST of my views than any other party... of course, no party will represent all of any person's views..

I consider myself to be a Jeffersonian Democrat



 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:09 pm
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Albert Sailhorst
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We need Andrew Jackson again.........In my mind, he was one of the few Presidents that really had guts......



 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:14 pm
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David White
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Four years ago the Democrats seemed on the verge of extinction with the far left fighting the Union-types and more moderates, apparently the far left has won that battle and the party is still anything but dead.

The Republicans are in a bad way, they need to move to more fiscal conservatism and standing up to the left wing types in the Democratic Party.  As to the former, they have just been a little bit better than the Democrats of late and they go too crazy with the government spending too.  As to the latter, they have never had a spine to do that for some reason even when they were in charge (the Democrats to their credit don't have a problem with sacking the town and putting all the opposing inhabitants to the sword).  Any moves they make right now may end up alienating moderates.  A recent poll says 47% of our nation seems to favor government direction for their life versus taking care of their own livelihood-- so fiscal conservatism will kill that gravy train and could cost them.  If they fight back too hard against the lefties right now, the press will crucify them as opposing "hope and change" and tell us how mean conservatives are.  So they will have to bide their time.

I predict the Republicans will make a come back sooner rather than later as dissatisfaction grows with the left wing Democrats when their experiment in socialism fails and ruins the economy further.  Just hope the people with ambition keep their businesses around to compete with the world economically.  Heck even the crappy companies like GM are taking their government handouts and using it to move their business off shore-- way to go Obama!

The Libertarians will never be a viable third party for the reasons Bama alludes to and the fact they are so right on many issues (getting government out of our lives and pocketbook) and so wrong on others (isolationism and making drugs legal).



 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 07:49 pm
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ashbel
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Bama

I wouldn't mind being called a Jeffersonian Democrat either - but the agrarian economy of Jefferson's day is long gone.

David

Good analysis.  Things will swing the other way - they always have in the past.  The problem is the Republicans are rejecting the their path out of oblivion by insisting on "conservative puritanism."  All they are doing is ensuring that they will become the permanent minority party.  25-30% of the votes doesn't win many elections.

 



 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 09:18 pm
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19bama46
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Forget for a moment, the agrarian economy concept.. A Jeffersonan Democrat will believe that the government that is the most improtant is the government that is closest to the person. I.E. town or village government (city government for you cityslickers) followed by county, state and last, federal... problwm is the feds have inserted themselves in all levels of the process until we deal with federal regulation for flushing pots, hauling garbage, using the roads, etc, etc... it is a perversion of the way government should work.

David, you are right...good post...



 Posted: Fri May 8th, 2009 09:39 pm
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ashbel
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It would be nice if we could focus on local government and work our way out.  Unfortunately, the complexity of today's world is much greater than that of the 19th Century.  There are many things like defense, trade, transportation, communications, medical care, financial markets, etc. that go beyond the boundaries of our local communities.

The limited mobility of citizens in the 19th century made the idea of a Jeffersonian democracy plausible.  As you know most Civil War soldiers never left their communities until they started to serve in their respective armies.

On the other hand should we have more or less Federal government involvement in our daily lives?  Less would suit me just fine.

 



 Posted: Sat May 9th, 2009 03:31 am
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19bama46
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need you ask?



 Posted: Sat May 9th, 2009 01:47 pm
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ole
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David is quite right, the majority leans more left now than it did, say, 40 years ago. I see something Lincolnesque in the process, although it's taken a lot longer than the four years it took Lincoln move the base closer to his way of thinking.

It is said, and rightfully so, that if you allow the government a "temporary" power, it's going to keep it. So it is that if you allow the voting base a "temporary" entitlement, it's going to keep it. We've marched along from a time when Democrats had to be more conservative to appeal to the base, to a time when Republicans must be more liberal to appeal to the base. From a time when states took care of their own business to a time when a state cannot survive without Federal help.

Be careful what you wish for, subsequent generations will be paying dearly for "hope and change."

Ole



 Posted: Sun May 10th, 2009 05:40 pm
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David White
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Ole:

Excellent observations and the scary thing is more people view the increasing power or the Federal government and the entitlement mentality at the local level as necessary for the country right now.  No one is thinking of the long term consequences that will affect, primarily, the economic fiber of the country but also its social well-being.  We are going the wrong direction and neither party has the answer, its just one is taking the short cut to Perdition.



 Posted: Mon May 25th, 2009 04:25 pm
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Captain Crow
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I vote we start a new party...and I've got a name...the Keg party! hey our government spends money like drunken sailors anyway :-)



 Posted: Mon May 25th, 2009 06:40 pm
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ole
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Doubledog Amen, Captain!



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