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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Reenacting and Living History > Other General reenacting & LH talk > No more Originals or Live Fired |
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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Reenacting and Living History > Other General reenacting & LH talk > No more Originals or Live Fired |
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| No more Originals or Live Fired | Rating: 
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23rd, 2010 09:37 am |
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1st Post |
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CameronsHighlander Member
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the USV & ANV are putting restrictions on Live fired and Original peices in the field
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| Posted: Fri Jul 23rd, 2010 08:27 pm |
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2nd Post |
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9Bama Member
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Why?
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 02:13 am |
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3rd Post |
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CameronsHighlander Member
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Apparently there was an accident and both groups have elected to err on the side of Safety which could be understood.
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 02:59 am |
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4th Post |
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9Bama Member
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CameronsHighlander wrote: Apparently there was an accident and both groups have elected to err on the side of Safety which could be understood. Can you give more details on the accident and why a previously fired loaded weapon that had been properly cleaned may have played a part in it? I suspect this is PC gone nuts or a group praying at the altar of safety above all else ed
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| Posted: Sat Jul 24th, 2010 11:33 pm |
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5th Post |
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javal1 Grumpy Geezer 
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"or a group praying at the altar of safety above all else" Not being a reenactor I have to ask - is that considered a bad altar to be praying at?
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| Posted: Sun Jul 25th, 2010 04:23 pm |
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6th Post |
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9Bama Member
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javal1 wrote: "or a group praying at the altar of safety above all else" Not a reenactor either, but I would say yes... one can push safety as any other thing beyond reason..some do that... sort of like "I have a headache, you go take an aspirin" "...this scares me, so you can't do it"
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 01:51 am |
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7th Post |
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Johan Steele Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352 
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I'd be more inclined to think the problem came from poor cleaning and maint of an original than failure. Standards... something sorely lacking in the re-enacting world.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 03:53 am |
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8th Post |
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9Bama Member
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Johan Steele wrote: I'd be more inclined to think the problem came from poor cleaning and maint of an original than failure. I suspect you are right. so rather than address the problem which will continue to crop up in other areas, the thing to do is put a ban on perfectly good firearms that if properly cleaned and maintained, aren't gonna hurt anyone, assuming of course that an idiot is not at the controls
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 04:53 am |
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9th Post |
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CameronsHighlander Member
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The USV and ANV rarely give full info they just say and expect us to do
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 05:53 pm |
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10th Post |
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Albert Sailhorst Member 
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If this is the incident that occured a month or two ago, it was a Mountain Howitzer......My guess is, it was "overloaded".....ie, the charge was, in reality, too "big" for a reenactment, Some artillert units will intentionally overload their charges so as to get a bigger bang and recoil on the guns. I do not recomend or endorse doing this!! We shoot an original 3 inch ordinance gun and fire about 7 ounces of cannon powder. This is sufficient to get a nice bang, but no re-coil...... I've seen artillery units with Mountain Howitzers fire more powder out of their small howitzers than we fire out of our full scalle, original gun.....Needless to say, we don't care too much when they're placed close to us. As to praying at the alter of safety......You better bet that safety needs to be and must be practiced! However, when there's a car wreck at the Indianapolis 500, no one strats screaming to ban cars.......just a thought.....
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 06:28 pm |
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11th Post |
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9Bama Member
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Albert Sailhorst wrote: If this is the incident that occured a month or two ago, it was a Mountain Howitzer......My guess is, it was "overloaded".....ie, the charge was, in reality, too "big" for a reenactment, Some artillert units will intentionally overload their charges so as to get a bigger bang and recoil on the guns. I do not recomend or endorse doing this!! Hi Albert! Why would an overloaded howitzer result in a ban on original weapons...and I am surprised, I thought we were talking about sholder arms here.. I had suspected that minute amounts of lead might have broken loose from a barrell that had not been properly cleaned or something of that nature. Your analogy of the race car wrecks is an excellent one. I will have to remember that. Safety that makes sense is one thing, safety merely to satisfy screamers is something else. It makes sense to practice safety around fireamrs. It makes no sense to outlaw the firing of firearms totally in the interest of "safety" Remeinds me of beint told we have to do idiotic things "for the children" Last edited on Thu Jul 29th, 2010 06:29 pm by 9Bama |
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 06:53 pm |
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12th Post |
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Albert Sailhorst Member
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Hey Ya, Bama!! My impression was this thread was in response to an artillery accident I read about.....a month or two ago. I suppose this thread could be in reference of another, seperate incident......I dunno.....none was specified, so, perhaps, we are talking about two different things..... The howitzer I am talking about burst on discharge, wounding several people....
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 07:29 pm |
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13th Post |
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9Bama Member
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Albert Sailhorst wrote: Hey Ya, Bama!! Good lord... I do not shoot unloaded weapons, and had no idea that could happen...it must have been SERIOUSLY overloaded for BP to build up the kinds of pressures for that to happen.... or the piece had a flaw I would think that with no projectile in the barrel providing resistance and building pressures, that it would be hard for this to happen... can happen easily with smokeless powder and a projectile...and the results ain't pretty!
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| Posted: Thu Jul 29th, 2010 07:38 pm |
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14th Post |
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Albert Sailhorst Member
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Ya know, I never did see or hear a follow-up to the story of the howitzer bursting (my theory of being over loaded is sheer speculation on my part)......Without more information, I can't say it was overloading or something in the barrel that should not have been or faulty metal.......etc... Reenacting can be dangerous, as anytime gun powder is involved there is an inherent risk. In the hands of people who pay attention to what they are doing and act in a safe fashion, the risk is minimized....it's still there, but minimized. Shoot, fishing is also a dangerous hobby!! It depends on other boaters/fisherman acting in a safe, responsible fashion.....
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13th, 2010 08:06 pm |
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15th Post |
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Albert Sailhorst Member
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If anyone receives the quartely magazine The Artilleryman, this quarter's issue has a GREAT article on artillery accidents. Some common denominators in those accidents are: homemade cannons made from pipes, over-loading the gun with too much gun powder and jamming objects down the barrel. Only one or two accidents involved proper loading, quality reproductions or originals (NOT stupid pipe guns) and people not cramming things down the barrel (in one accident, some fools stuffed the gun with bread!).
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| Posted: Fri Aug 13th, 2010 08:30 pm |
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16th Post |
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9Bama Member
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Albert Sailhorst wrote: If anyone receives the quartely magazine The Artilleryman, this quarter's issue has a GREAT article on artillery accidents. Some common denominators in those accidents are: homemade cannons made from pipes, over-loading the gun with too much gun powder and jamming objects down the barrel. Only one or two accidents involved proper loading, quality reproductions or originals (NOT stupid pipe guns) and people not cramming things down the barrel (in one accident, some fools stuffed the gun with bread!). This goes back to my earlier comment about pressures building up behind the "projectile"... if there is nothing but powder in the barrel, and assuming we are not talkin about homemade pipe guns, there should be virtually no pressure in the tube. On the other hand, anything that stops or even significantly slows down the gases produced by the burning powder will result in a dramatic increase in pressure with the result that you can have a split tube.. You see evidence of this in the war, especially the naval war in which naval smoothbore canon (Confederate) were converted to rifled. The projectile then fit much more snugly and as a result, many of the canon exploded with significant casualties... close to an exploding canon is notsome you wnat to be...close being a relative term here..my definition is about a quarter mile or so..LOL
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| Posted: Sat Aug 14th, 2010 01:23 am |
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17th Post |
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ole Member 
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Playing with explosives is kinda like juggling straight razors. If you do it right -- every time -- you're probably okay. Maybe. Usually? Most of the time? I'll bet Albert's crew, keeps the beer a mile or so away from the gun.
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| Posted: Tue Sep 7th, 2010 03:58 am |
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18th Post |
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CameronsHighlander Member
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I found out it is fear of flaking lead. If you ever watched CSI or anything involving crime investigation you know that all bullets fired leave residue in a weapon this includes Gun Powder and flakes of Lead, Brass, or Copper depending on the Weapon. Rifles more so due to the Spiral groves allowing the Bullet to spin these will be trace but it does happen they fear that small hunks of lead could be presant no matter how good you clean it something could be there and sent down range injuring or even killing someone. Personally I feel this is over reaction but since I was part of the USV and will be returning to the ANV the rules are made for safety. As for Originals I feel better not having one simply because it is 150 years old you never know what an original went through in those 100 + years before you march out with it. Personally I do not want to be on Spike TV's 1,000 ways to die. Last edited on Tue Sep 7th, 2010 03:59 am by CameronsHighlander |
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| Posted: Sat Nov 3rd, 2012 08:48 pm |
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19th Post |
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Darryl Member
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I found something that helps alleviate that problem of flaking and extra residue in barrels. The Marines would fire their weapons for range quals, clean the weapon, then come back and reclean the same weapon three days later. now whether you use the weapon once the not again for awhile, still do the procedure. If you fire it clean it then go out and use it the next day clean it the three day cycle after the last time use. It works! you will be surprised how much crap will come out again! One thing we used to do was send a man in early from the skirmish to get the fire going and put a big pot of water on to boil. When we got back two or three men would strip down their revolvers put the barrel and cylinder in the water and let them boil for ten minutes. Then a another group wqould do it. You'd be surprised again at how clean they come out. you want that realizism, and be like real soldiers, go that extra mile in gun safety. They depended on those weapons to save their lives, why shouldn't we do any less with ours?
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