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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > Weapons of the Civil War > Repeating Carbines |
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Civil War Interactive Discussion Board > Civil War Talk > Weapons of the Civil War > Repeating Carbines |
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| Repeating Carbines | Rating: 
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| Posted: Sun Mar 26th, 2006 04:53 pm |
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1st Post |
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JeremyScott Member 
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Please excuse me as this is my 2nd post and Im still VERY new to the forum. By why was the Ordenace Department reluctant to change over to the repeaters? I know they had them readily available as early as 1862. From what I read they were only given to select cavarly units?
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27th, 2006 02:42 pm |
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2nd Post |
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TimHoffman01 Member 
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As I understood it, the War Department was worried about the soldiers shooting the things off without taking a proper aim and wasting ammunition. More from the $$ side of things than simply not hitting much. From an article recently printed in America's Civil War (I'd have to check the month, but somewhere around three issues ago), there was some basis to this, apparently the Union troops had a tendency to fill the air with bullets, but shoot too high when under stress. I'm sure, of course, there would have to have been notable exeptions to that generality.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 02:49 am |
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3rd Post |
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Johan Steele Life NRA,SUVCW # 48,Legion 352 
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The biggest factor was cost and reliability w/ both the Spencer and Henry costing 3-5 times of a single M1861 and the brass rimfire ammunition costing at least triple that of a .58 paper cartridge. Bueracrats are notorious penny pinchers when it comes to saving someone elses hide... In stopping power and Ballistics neither the Henry or Spencer were all that impressive and both were considerably shorter ranged than the M1861 or P53. But they made up for those shortcomings w/ the ability to put forth some serious firepower. Men of Wilder's Brigade at Chickamauga, the 7th IL VI at Atlanta and Altoonna and Custer's Wolverines at Gettysburg to name just a few thought several monthes paycheck for a Spencer or Henry was well worth the investment when they knew they were bound for the Sharp End and they proved the worth of that investment.
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| Posted: Thu Jan 11th, 2007 03:48 pm |
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4th Post |
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ole Member 
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Ripley had another, not often-mentioned reason to resist any new-fangled muskets: commonality of ammunition. He was concerned, and perhaps justifiably so, about battlefield supply and about the number of calibers requiring manufacture, distribution and resupply. Ole
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| Posted: Fri Jan 12th, 2007 06:11 am |
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5th Post |
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Hellcat Person 
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Jeremy, in addition to what's being discussed here, you might want to check out Civil War Blunders by Clint Johnson. He touches on this subject in the 1861 section of the book, in fact it's in the last part of that section which is all about weapons. In effect, part of the reason sounds like a long time Army career man (Ripley was sixty-seven with forty-seven years of service when he took over the Ordnance Department in Apirl 1861 from Col. Henry K. Craig, who was three years his senior) who was resisting modernization.
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| Posted: Sat Jan 13th, 2007 05:03 am |
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6th Post |
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Kentucky_Orphan Member 
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I loose patience with the argument that the U.S. ordinace department resisted the change from single shot muzzle loaders to repeater simply because of resisting modernization. I know thats not what you are saying hellcat, you are simply pointing out the fact that some cite it as part of the problem. Simply put, the U.S. ordnance department was simply overwhelmed. Take into account the variety of arms being used by Federal soldiers as late as Gettysburg. One regiment, the 1st Minnesota, carries into battle at Gettysburg a mixture of .69 smoothbores, .69 and .58 muzzleloading rifles, and a number of Sharpes breechloaders. Nor was this as uncommon as you might think. There were 242 Union infantry regiments at Gettysburg, sixteen were equipped partially with smoothbores, 10 entirely with smoothbores, and a number with .54 and .70 caliber muzzleloaders. In all, only 70 percent were armed partially or wholy with .577 or .58 caliber muzzle-loading rifles. Can you imagine the nightmare of trying to keep these units properly equipped with ammunition, especially considering the number of other federal armies, outposts, etc.? Worse, early in the conflict, as late as 2nd Manassas I believe, there were a number of regiments that put in requisitions for ammunition simply stateing the number of rounds needed and not specifying what type(s). These factors, along with others, severly hamstringed the Union Ordinance Dept. If you had the choice to modernize your entire force with all .577 or .58 caliber muzzeloaders in 1862 or keeping this hosh-posh of arms much longer in order to issue more repeaters, what would one do? I believe the U.S. Ordinance Dept. did well considering the restraints. Remember the old quip as well- the U.S. Ordinance/Quartermaster worked miracles, they kept 2 countries armies equipped in the field for 4 years.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19th, 2007 03:11 pm |
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7th Post |
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Widow Member
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Orphan, That reminds me of the day when Jeb Stuart captured a Yankee telegraph office. He had a message sent to the US Quartermaster in Washington, complaining about the poor quality of mules. I'm sure that Meigs was not amused. I'm sure Jeb was. Patty
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19th, 2007 04:33 pm |
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8th Post |
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susansweet Member 
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Patty what a great story . Thanks for sharing it . Makes me think of a question to ask everyone . Which Civil War personality would you most like to have a conversation with and what would you ask them ? I am still trying to think of which one I would want to talk to, actually I know who I would like to talk to but not sure what question I would ask. Confederate it would have to be Cleburne or Stuart. I hink I would ask Cleburne being an Irishman that had only lived in the United States for less than 15 years why did he chose to fight and fight on the side of the South. I think I would ask Stuart about the Ride around the Union army. Union , I would talk to Kit Carson (remember I am a westerner ) I would talk to him about the Long Walk.
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19th, 2007 04:34 pm |
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9th Post |
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Widow Member
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Orphan, thanks for your excellent comments about the Ordnance Department. I hadn't considered the complexity of its responsibilities. Once again, it shows that there are at least two explanations for an occurrence. I tend to accept the first explanation I hear, and dispute all subsequent as wrong. I'll remember your Ordnance discussion as a way of thinking, on any topic, "Yes, but why did they do it that way?" Patty
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| Posted: Fri Jan 19th, 2007 06:31 pm |
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10th Post |
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Widow Member
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Susan, an excellent new topic. If you don't mind, I'll start a new thread so our conversations with the Civil War personalities with not be mixed in with the discussion of repeating carbines. Maybe we can persuade Joe to move your post to the new thread, hm? Patty
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