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 Posted: Wed Apr 17th, 2013 10:53 pm
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Blakelkg
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New to forum and I have a question about Ohio units. While doing some genealogy I came across an ancestor who was part of the Ohio Veterans Volunteer Infantry (Co. E 47th OVVI). I am familiar with the term OVI (Ohio Volunteer Infantry), but had never seen OVVI. Can somone explain the difference between OVI and OVVI? At first I thought it had to do with the three year units and the re-enlistment of the unit after three years (thus they were veterans...that was my guess anyway). So I thought I'd ask the pros. Thx in advance!



 Posted: Thu Apr 18th, 2013 07:31 pm
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Hellcat
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What I can find is that VVI regiments were regiments made up of veterans of units that had enlisted for three years but some of the veterans had enlisted for longer than three years and were combined with vetereans from other units to form a VVI regiment. However, I can't find this to be true for the 47th Ohio as I find it formed in August 1861 and mutered out August 1865. So I can't say I understand fully the use of the term.



 Posted: Fri Apr 19th, 2013 02:15 am
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Blakelkg
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Thanks for the reply...I could not find the 47th OVVI in records, but there are a lot of sites that sell 47th OVVI flags. I also attached headstone photo of my ancestor...which shows the unit...

Attachment: Moon, Jobe S--Headstone 88161769_133376699093.jpg (Downloaded 37 times)



 Posted: Fri Apr 19th, 2013 04:40 pm
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MildMan
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Not sure this helps, but in researching a maine soldier at the National Archives I came across papers which show that this soldier reenlisted as a "Veteran Volunteer". In December 1863 substantial bounties were being offered to induce veterans to reenlist. In the papers I viewed, this soldier was first discharged or 'mustered out" of the Fifth Maine, which I believe means that he was released from his original enlistment which was for three years ending May 1864. On the same day he mustered into the "Veteran Volunteers" and reenlisted for an additional 3 years - from December 1863 . This man stayed in the same regiment - nothing actually changed. The soldiers that enlisted early in the war liked to use "Volunteer" in the name of the regiment to differentiate themselves form units that were formed largely of draftees. Perhaps the OVVI designation means that this veteran took pride not only enlisting once, but reenlisting. I bet there was no 47 OVVI, just a 47th OVI.

Last edited on Fri Apr 19th, 2013 04:44 pm by MildMan



 Posted: Fri Apr 19th, 2013 04:46 pm
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MildMan
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One more thing, after the rest of the 5th Maine Mustered out in June 1864, the Veteran Volunteers were transferred to another unit.



 Posted: Fri Apr 19th, 2013 05:22 pm
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Hellcat
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Actually, the vetereans of the 5th Maine combined with those of the 6th and 7th to form the 1st Maine Veteran Volunteer Infatry in 1864. http://members.tripod.com/~Paul_Emerson/Me.Regiments.html

Last edited on Fri Apr 19th, 2013 05:23 pm by Hellcat



 Posted: Sat Apr 20th, 2013 01:42 am
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Johan Steele
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The extra V, referencing veterans, would have been added after the men re-enlisted w/ enough numbers to keep their flag and their identity.



 Posted: Sat Apr 20th, 2013 12:35 pm
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Blakelkg
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Thanks for your replies...now I just have to find why this guy shows up in Co. K 175th OVI but not in the 47th OVI....He's not a direct ancestor but I'm doing a genealolgy piece on my ancestors with military service...this individual is a bit of a mystery! How did he jump from one unit to another without record of the move?



 Posted: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 01:16 pm
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MildMan
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Hellcat, yes that's what the records say, but in doing some research I found that the process of relisting was as I described. Upon reenlisting the soldier mustered out of the 5th and into the Veterans Volunteers. Nothing changed so it looks just like the mechanics of the transaction. Please see the attached. If you have a better interpretation of the information, please let me know.

This is pretty irrelevant to understanding the soldier in question. The 175th Ohio was a one year regiment that mustered in October 1864 and mustered out June 1865. The 47th mustered in September 1861, so it may have become become the 47th OIVI in September 1864 after three year enlistments were up. The unit mustered out August 1865. I don’t see how or why Moon would have been on both units. Unless he was a “blue moon”. Sorry for the pun.

Attachment: IMG_1374 copy.jpg (Downloaded 24 times)



 Posted: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 01:17 pm
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MildMan
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Last edited on Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 01:18 pm by MildMan



 Posted: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 01:19 pm
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MildMan
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Another document.

Attachment: IMG_1373 copy.jpg (Downloaded 24 times)



 Posted: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 03:05 pm
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Hellcat
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What I'm reading is that that individual re-enlisted as a veteran volunteer, not that he re-enlisted in a veteran volunteer regiment. Based on what Johan Steele told us it sounds like anyone could be mustered out at the end of their enlistment period and then re-enlist in the same regiment (if it coninued to exist) without the regiment as a whole being a veteran volunteer regiment. But if enough of the volunteers re-enlisted in the regiment in order for the regiment to keep it's flag then the regiment as a whole became a veteran volunteer regiment even if there were green recruits added to the regiment.



 Posted: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 04:12 pm
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MildMan
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I agree no new regiment was created. But this soldier did muster in and out of the Fifth, and I find this a bit confusing. if you look at the first form it says he mustered out on December 27 and in the second he mustered in on December 28 as a Veteran Volunteer. If Steele is correct, not enough members of the 5th reenlisted to continue as the 5th Maine.



 Posted: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 05:56 pm
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Hellcat
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Find out what General Order No. 191, ***** of 1863 of the War Department is. I'm asuming the G.O. is General Order, on both images I have trouble, even blowing things up 400%, reading what's after 191. Think it reads series. But I'm reading both saying that Private Irwin re-enlisted after having served one enlistment term. Note that neither image give the original date he enlisted on. He's mustered out some time in December 1863 (the first clearly says December 27th both for the roll date and the mustered out date). He also appears to re-enliust sometime in December 1863 (look at the second, roll date is December 28th, mustered in date is December 28th, but enlistment date is December 26th) So we have his mustered out of his first enlist in December 1863 and mustered in into his second enlistment at around the same time. Now if I'm able to read the first one correctly it lists his discharge as "Disharged by nature of reenlistment as Vet. Vol., under the (unintelligible to me) G.O. 191 series(?) of 1863 from the War Dept."

Now if we assume he was originally mustered into the 5th Maine for his original enlistment when it was first formed in 1861 then we figure he'd most likely seen action in just about every major action in the Eastern Theater prior to December 1863. That is barring injury or illness. So he'd certainly have been a combat veteran at the time he re-enlisted. A veteran volunteering for another X number of years.



 Posted: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 05:56 pm
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Hellcat
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double post

Last edited on Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 06:56 pm by Hellcat



 Posted: Mon Apr 22nd, 2013 08:58 pm
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Blakelkg
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Thanks guys...It could also be that they put the wrong unit on the headstone..All the Moons in the 47th were related (cousins, uncles and brothers). Not that it's terribly relavant, but Clinton County Ohio was home to the Moon Colony (that's what they called it). The Moon Colony was established by the Moon family from the Carolinas in the early 1800s, and they were quite prolific and by the mid 1800s there were over 200 hundred family members. Jobe S Moon was born in 1842 the son of Moses Moon who registered for the draft...I'll keep researching.



 Posted: Tue Apr 23rd, 2013 02:25 pm
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kj3553
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If this is of any help, I found the following description of General Orders 191 online at this website: http://howardlanham.tripod.com/go.htm

General Orders 191 June 25, 1863

V., Veteran Volunteers enlisted under this order will be permitted at their option to enter old regiments in the field; but their service will continue for the full term of their own enlistment, notwithstanding the expiration of the term for which the regiment was originally enlisted. New organizations will be officered only by persons who have been in the service, and have shown themselves properly qualified for command. As a badge of honorable distinction, "service chevrons" will be furnished by the War Department, to be worn by the Veteran Volunteers.
BY ORDER OF THE SECRETARY OF WAR



 Posted: Tue Apr 23rd, 2013 04:50 pm
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Hellcat
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Thanks kj3553 for digging up General Order 191.



 Posted: Wed Apr 24th, 2013 03:49 am
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Hellcat
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Gotta love Stackpole books for reprinting some of the manuals from the war. This sheds even more light than what we have already discussed on the Veteran Volunteers. From The 1865 Customs of Service for Non-commioned Officers and Soldiers by August V Kautz, pages 197-198:

 VETARANS


590. VOLUNTEERS who have served at least nine months, and who re-enlist, are entitled to be called "Veteran Volunteers," and may wear the service chevron showing they served one enlistment. (G.O. No. 191, 1863.)


591. Veterans are entitled to one month's advance pay, a premium of two dollars, and bounty amounting in all to four hundred and two dollars, to be paid by installments as provided by G.O. No. 191, Par 30. If discharged before the expiration of their enlistment, veterans will recieve the balance on the foregoing bounty. The heirs of veterans who die in service will be entitled to the balance of the above bounty remaining unpaid at the time of death.


592. Soldiers who re-enlisted prior to June 25, 1863, and who have complied with the conditions promulgated in G.O. No. 191 of that date, are entitled to the bounty therein provided; that is, they must have served one enlistment of at least nine months, and been regulary and properly mustered into service. (G.O. No. 216, 1863.)


593. A veteran regiment, to entitle it to be called such, must be composed of at least one-half it's number of men who have served one enlistment of not less than nine months. (G.O. No. 216, 1863.)


 

Thinking about kj3553's post inspired me to look through The 1863 Laws of War manual (another Stackpole Books reprint to see what it said there. And either the War Department left it out of the original or Stackpole Books left it out of the reprint. You go through that book there are places where whole paragraphs are missing. And of course it might not have ever been in there, though part IV is "Extracts from the Revised United States Army Regulations of 1861 with an Appendix containing the Changes and Laws Affectinf Army Regulations to June 25, 1863." that's one reason why I thought it might have been there. But it does say to June 25th and the appendix does say up to June 25th, not from June 25th, so I'm probably wrong.



 Posted: Sat Apr 27th, 2013 08:19 pm
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MildMan
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Wow, Thanks Hellcat and kj3553. Indeed Irwin received a months advance pay, plus $2, plus a $60 installment of the $402 bounty.

I notice that Veteran Volunteers were allowed to wear a single Cheveron, I think this means a "V" on the sleeve. Was a single chevron worn for any other purpose? i.e. if i see a soldier image with a single chevron can I assume that the image is of a Veteran Volunteer?



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