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 Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 03:49 pm
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javal1
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It's Official: No Casino In Gettysburg

The Pennsylvania Gaming Control board this morning denied a slots license to Crossroads Resort & Spa to build a casino at the intersection of routes 30 and 15 in Straban Township. More details later.



 Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 04:45 pm
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connyankee
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Thanks for updating us on this.  Personally, I'm glad with the decision.  If you like gaming, you can always come to Connecticut, the Casino State (formerly the Constitution State).

:) connyankee



 Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 08:00 pm
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burnsideshot
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I never really understood why it was a bad thing.  I agree the location isn't  good... but if there was a casino in the outskirts, would that meet such fierce opposition?  It would bring business, people and get the town attention.  Is it the fear of an increase in crime?



 Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 08:29 pm
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javal1
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Amen Burnside - nice to know I'm not totally alone in that feeling. There are folks, including many on this board, that fought it because they thought it somehow affected historic preservation. I disagree, but I have no qualms with them.

What needs to be understood is the issue brought out alot of what I call "born-again" preservationists - people who oppose gambling for religious or "moral" reasons and suddenly discovered historical preservation, and used it, because it met their agenda. You will never hear from these people again in regards to preservation issues. These are the people I have contempt for. They were nowhere to be found when other major preservation issues were being fought. The fact that there won't be a casino in GB doesn't bother me, I'm a thousand miles away. If there would have been one, it wouldn't have bothered me. The pure adulterated hypocrisy of many who fought against it under false pretenses bothers the hell out of me.



 Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 09:07 pm
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Regina
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I'm happy with the decision, but I have to say that I find the whole issue extremely controversial (I live in CT and am glad that the Pequots and Mohegans received federal recognition as tribes and were granted permission to build casinos on land that they deserve to govern as they please--it's close to fair treatment toward them for a change.  I've never even visited the casinos to gamble, but I have gone to some of the concerts they've had there.  On the other hand, I think it would be disrespectful to have one so close to Gettysburg hallowed ground.)



 Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 09:57 pm
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Doc C
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I'm not a religious/social zealot by any means, but feel that legalized gambling is a terrible way to generate income for states. When I lived in Louisiana I voted against every gambling referendum - horse racing, slots, casinos; My fear with Pa & Gettysburg is that this is probably not the last time an attempt will be made. I'm not against people using gambling as a form of entertainment, however I knew numerous individuals who were using their hard earned wages trying to make a killing at the slots or tables while at the same time throwing away their grocery, rent, etc. monies. When one visits the casinos today it's not the same atmosphere as years ago in Vegas. The last dialoque of De Niro in Scorsese's film Vegas pretty much sums up the changes present today. Also, can the states manage appropriately all the revenues that come into their hands from these casinos. Don't think so. While in La, always wondered where all the funds from gambling went. If Texas ever legalizes casino gambling, La is hosed, >90% of patrons come from Texas.

Doc C



 Posted: Wed Dec 20th, 2006 11:25 pm
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Johnny Huma
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Thank God and Amen...

I do live in Pa..I am not against gambling and on occasion I do...I am glad PA has gambling as it is supposed to relieve some of our real estate tax burdons..Although I doubt that will happen...But I love going to Gettysburg and walking the fields and I love the town...But there are a lot of places to put casino's in Pa. and they were trying to use Gettysburg as the draw for their casino...Sorry Bad Idea..Not here..Not now...Not Ever....Gettysburg does not need the casino to attract visitors..Believe me when I tell you try going there from June to October and you will see there is not a want for more people there...The town is flocking with tourist in abundance who are learning about History and the focus is on History...Would we have really needed a detraction from this Hallowed Ground..Gettysburg has done well to get rid of these sideshows over the years..Amusement Parks..Towers..Etc...It's not about religous reasons or about born again preservationist..It's about "Common Sense"...This area is a shrine to all who fought here and should be kept that way...Not a playground for the wealthy. It is also a college town...Very bad idea just on that alone...Want your kids at the casino every night Mom and Dad while your supporting them through college?

Huma



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 12:41 am
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Doc C
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Johnny

Keep thinking those happy thoughts about your property taxes declining, mine never did in the years i lived in La, in fact they went up. It won't be the wealthy who primarily visit the casino. Sure the infrastructure may benefit somewhat. In post Katrina was it the population who were up and running in its aftermath, don't think so, it was the Mississippi/La casinos. I reinterate, nothing wrong with casinos, but to think it's the golden calf is a mistake. It's the easy way to generate income. Why don't we invest in education so our children and grandchildren can somehow compete with the rest of the world which may already be ahead of us, i.e. engineering, science, etc. Why don't we allocate funds for prenatal healthcare, for example every dollar spent saves approimately 9 dollars. Not a bad investment. So much for my soapbox.

Doc C



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 01:03 am
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Widow
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One look at Atlantic City and you can tell that gambling doesn't bring prosperity to the locals.  Where do those profits go?

My vast experience with casinos is based on a visit to Reno.  I put a nickel in a slot and got seven nickels back.  I quit while I was ahead and never gambled again.

Some years ago Disney wanted to build a theme park in Manassas.  They said it would be wonderful, so people could look at their plastic robots made to look like soldiers on their fake phony bogus indoor battlefield.  Just think, they said, all that history right before your very eyes!

Some people, like florists, thought it was a good idea.  But the general public just laughed them out of town.  Disney gave up and went to France, where they got a warmer welcome.

Patty

Last edited on Thu Dec 21st, 2006 01:08 am by Widow



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 01:06 am
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javal1
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Johnny, Doc, et al. -

Thanks for your input. Let me take this opportunity to say that no member of this board has to state that they're not a "born-again preservationist" because of my previous post. If you're a member here then by definition you care about Civil War preservation. What I was trying to get to was the fact that I've covered all of the preservation battles in Gettysburg for over 11 years, written scores of news articles about those battles, and dozens of editorials. Many of the people who led the fight against this casino on "historic preservation" grounds never appeared in any of the previous fights - not the RR Cut, not the tower, not the fight to save Camp Letterman, not the VC fight, not the fight against housing developments with hundreds of homes, not the fight to save the Lady Farm, and not the fights against massive commercial complex's much larger than the proposed casino. Where were they? My contention is that they are not preservationists at all, but rather ideaological zealots with objections other than preservation who used a legitimate cause which they didn't care about to advance their agenda. If one believes gambling is bad due to religious beliefs, that's fine. Fight it on those grounds in the churches. If one is against it for moral reasons, fine. Fight it wherever it is one fights things on moral grounds. But don't latch onto the teat of "preservation" when you really don't care about it at all.

Johnny, you say "Gettysburg does not need the casino to attract visitors..Believe me when I tell you try going there from June to October and you will see there is not a want for more people there...The town is flocking with tourist in abundance who are learning about History and the focus is on History". But put yourself in the shoes of a business owner in Gettysburg. Would you be satisfied having customers 5 months out of the year? Have you been to GB in the off-season, or after 9pm anytime? It's a ghost town. I lived 90 miles away for 40 years, visited the field hundreds of times, and talked in-depth to "townies" and "tourists" alike. I can honestly say that there's much animosity in the town because the rest of the nation feels they should be able to dicatate how the entire township is run. Yes, the, Gettysburg battlefield is sacred. Yes, other parts of the town where the battle raged are historically significant. The land the casino was to be built on was not.

I also notice that we have two posts, one claiming folks are spending food and rent money in casino's, and another claiming they're playgrounds for the wealthy. Which is it? Or, is it just that people of all economic levels visit casino's? And what does that have to do with preservation?

Since I see I'm writing a book here, I'll close by saying I understand all the objections, and I respect the opions expressed. I just wish people didn't toss around the "preservation" label so casually, and wanted to make it clear that I wasn't talking about the people here. There are plenty of fights coming in the future when it will actually apply. We should save it for those.



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 01:27 am
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Doc C
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Javal

My opinion on casinos has nothing to do with Gettysburg or other historical area. I see your point regarding local business people and the lack of traffic during the quote "off season". But I truly believe that their delusioned if they feel that casinos would be the "golden calf". Sure, restaurants, gas stations, etc. would benefit but don't think the mom/pop grocery store, pharmacy, hard ware would see any significant increase in revenue. However, if you're in the pawn business, well, start thinking about that vacation beach house. Walk in any casino in Miss/La to see what class of individual predominates (not trying to stereotype). I don't understand why casino gambling wasn't put on a ballot. Instead of courting casinos why doesn't the township attempt to attract other industries - manufacturing, high tech, etc.. My final comment is - are West Virginia, Louisiana, Mississippi better off with gambling? Also your point about certain individuals waiting till after the decision to b---h and moan is well taken, where were we when the debates began. I plead quilty.

Doc C



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 01:30 am
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Doc C
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Also, in regards to future battles. In my experience, once they get it on the ballot that's it. May not pass this time or this way but it always comes back eventually and passes.

Doc C



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 01:37 am
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javal1
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Hi Doc...

I fully understand your point, and actually agree to a degree. Those who believe this will solve all of PA's economic woes are sadly mistaken. Maybe Rendell will lower property taxes for a year so he can say he was right, but it's not a cure-all for the state. But for the township? Well, they need help and if this would have helped it so be it. (BTW, I don't recall seeing a single pawn shop in Gettysburg ;) ) And one final time, the individuals I refer to are not members of this board. They are those who led the fight in some of the larger anti-casino groups...not those who may have agreed with them. Thanks again...



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 01:45 am
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Doc C
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Another consideration, is what happens to the possible Gettysburg casino if Maryland or Virginia legalize casino gambling?

Doc C



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 02:03 am
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ole
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No way is a casino going to benefit anyone but the casinor owners and otherwise interested parties.  The line is increased revenue for the state, county, whatever. That income, what there is of it, is already spent somewhere in someone's favorite project, office, apartment building or cousin. There will be no relief in taxes. We're talking government here, people. An infusion of money is not for your relief. It's for doing daring new stuff, and making a job for your spouse's third cousin.

Ole



 Posted: Thu Dec 21st, 2006 02:21 am
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Johnny Huma
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Javal1,

I understand your point. Have you ever tried driving around the square at 2 o'clock in the afternoon in July...:) I am sure you have...Imagine casino traffic added to that and the Burg would come to a standstill..I agree the town rolls up after 9 PM and the Ghost walking tours are lingering about till about 10.00 PM..I also have talked to shop owners there (and by the way there is a pawn shop there if you hit the back streets)

some pro some con. Some are afraid it will turn into a 24/7 town never sleeping..Imagine what that would do to the people who live there and have to work there as the tourist are frolicking outside their windows. Imagine the sirens of the local Police going off at all hours of the night..

The Pro folks I talked to say more business, more money, more jobs...Looks good on paper but when it actually becomes reality they will view it in a different manner I am sure..

I realize you are not pointing fingers at anyone on the site..For myself I am a member of the CWPT and voiced my opinion by sending letters to the PA gaming commission

and our "Beloved" Govnur'...And you are right we all think we know what is best for Gettysburg based on our own expierences there...And I am sure like you say there are those who use the preservationist angle for thier own reasons..And I dont like those types either..

BTW the back street pawn shop is across the tracks from the Lincoln Train Station...

It looks like a flea market but they will pawn whatever you want to pawn there...:)

Huma



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